To think many schools forget that lots of mums work?

[malificent7]

In primary school it was almost a given that they scheduled things in the school day which is understandable but a bit sad that when i was teaching myself, i couldn't get time off for sports day etc.

In secondary school I was chatying to a mum friend who was asked to go to a meeting during school time. She can't...she works! Not a huge issue i guess and not sure how it can be solved. As an ex teacher I wouldn't have wanted to meet parents outside school hours.

My son doesn’t have a mum, I had to remove my female cousin as the second contact as without fail they would always phone her first. I even asked reception to show me his sims profile which showed I was down as priority 1 and there was a note stating that she should only be called if I failed to answer!!!

Teachers do not get paid for their lunch break.

@tootiredtoocare lucky you eh? A privilege to watch them go under GA! That sucks.

I am self employed exactly because of the high number of sick days I have to take for childcare and huge amount of flexibility needed - and I'm bloody lucky to be able to do that as if I had a perm job I'd just get sacked or be in endless disciplinaries.

Ps @tootiredtoocare I hope your dc is doing better now - really, if you have a dc with a disability, your allowance for annual leave or sick days etc should be increased

i don't think it unreasonable to suggest 15-20 minutes of this time could be used for phone calls should no other time available providing that the teacher gets a full 30 minutes break.

Many do but unfortunately they don’t have just 1 parent to ring.
And it’s also got to coincide with the parents lunch break, break duties, staff meetings, using the toilet, eating their own lunch and getting the room ready for the next class.

I always advise anyone who wants to become a teacher to not do it if they have young children and it’s not a family friendly job.

There's no point in picking a school with a lovely ethos if you can't make it work logistically for your family. School is only one part of a child's life - the other part is at home, with parents who can hopefully provide financially and aren't always too stressed to support and nurture their children. An extra 5/10 minutes in the morning or after school can make a difference between always being dropped off or picked up by a grumpy, frantic parent running late or one who has the time and headspace to respond to their child and take an interest in their day.

What's the alternative? This scheduling in school time is part of the deal when having kids.

Many schools have short lunchtimes now. I recently left teaching and the school had a 30 min lunch. I never didn’t work during this time. I’d have phoned parents at lunch but be under no illusion that many teachers actually get a break at all during the day. There’s just so much to do and not enough staff.

On the point of the thread. Notice is really the answer to it, as already stated.

I only actually looked at our nearest primary school, less than ten minutes' walk away,
There's not always that much actual choice - frequently it is the catchment school or school with places.

First school we bought house 18 months before and had spoken to local parents about the local schools which did influence were we bought. When we moved it how welcome they made the kids feel on view round- one clearly wanted them other made it clear they didn't agree with council there were spaces.

@Rosehugger Well I guess it’s just different locations and different priorities in that case. Our local schools (London suburb) are certainly not at all similar; we have a shiny new free school (great for wraparound care but rigid curriculum with zero ‘fun’ or community engagement); a lovely but slightly run down community school with a very mixed demographic; a more middle class community school known for its pushy parents; several CofE schools with varying degrees of religious commitment and a Catholic school. Very wide range of intakes, each with a different ethos and widely varying results. I imagine it’s a different story in parts of the country with less choice though.

And I’d certainly want to know, for example, how the school dealt with bullying issues, how they catered for SEND, how they accommodated more able pupils and what their ultimate outcomes were etc, what lunchtime/after school clubs were offered and so on. Even where the school food is sourced from, so I have a vague idea of what she’s eating each day.

What do you do when you have a hospital or dental appointment or need to be in the house when a tradesman is coming

Well working parents make the appointment at a time they can arrange time off work. The schools make the appointments regardless of whether parents can attend or not. That’s the difference.

Me my my OH take it in turns to take time off work to attend things. As long as one of us is there my DD is happy. It's not just mums that work OP, your title should have said 'parents' (small thing I know, but does irritate me!)

And I’d certainly want to know, for example, how the school dealt with bullying issues, how they catered for SEND, how they accommodated more able pupils and what their ultimate outcomes were etc, what lunchtime/after school clubs were offered and so on. Even where the school food is sourced from, so I have a vague idea of what she’s eating each day.

You could get all that information by reading the website and Ofsted report. You wouldn't get any further information from asking staff, just polished answers. What you want to know by visiting the school is the atmosphere of the place and what lessons are actually like, how engaged the children seem and what the other potential parents are like.

And London - ha! Good luck. Parental choice is largely an illusion, you get what you are given.

And London - ha! Good luck. Parental choice is largely an illusion, you get what you are given

Actually it’s a buyers’ market where I am at the moment - lots of families leaving the country (Brexit) or moving further out to cheaper areas (covid and cost of living crisis). Most of our nearest schools now undersubscribed, where a few years ago they were busting at the seams. Everyone I know in the area got their first choice.

Absolutely agree, OP. Our school used to have sports day. Infants in the morning, juniors in the afternoon. I used to book that day off as it was known in advance. This year, with three weeks’ notice, it’s three separate mornings next week. So I take three half days of leave or don’t go to any - and that’s if my boss lets me in the first place! There is no allowance made for working parents, and let’s face it, it’s the working parents who donate to the PTA and cough up for trips and extra resources and so on. School have very quickly lost my goodwill as they just don’t help themselves sometimes 😬

I think it's more to do with time scale if they need to see you they need to see you .But think you can just come in at the drop of a hat
Can honestly say on the few times we were called in it could of been dealt with over the phone there was zero benefit from our presence .

Well perhaps that is partly because the demands from parents are also higher? The expectation is that schools provide a wide range of education and activities, wrap around care, and so much more. Meanwhile, standards and demands on schools have quite rightly increased, whilst funding has diminished. That said, I was at school in the 60's and 70's and my parents had much more than just parents evenings to attend. There were many activities during the school day which parents attended if they could do so; and some wouldn't have taken place if parents hadn't been able to help with organisation. So not that much has changed in that respect. What has perhaps changed is that more women are now working - when I was at school I cannot recall a single one of my friends who had a working mother at primary / junior school, and very few at secondary (and mostly they were teachers). It shouldn't be women's responsibility to be the "primary carer", but realistically it often has been and still is.

I have no problems with school activities and meetings during school hours. It makes sense to me. No point in having a sports day or coffee morning outside the core hours in primary school when kids are already knackered after the core hours.
However, I do have a problem with things being crammed into the same week.

Last week of the last half term, we had a parents coffee morning, a school breakfast event and a school 'performance' mostly during school hours (other than the breakfast event which was 8am-9am). I work 9-5 and my work is very flexible, but no way would I be able to attend all three without my work suffering.

Also, our school seems to have great ideas which they run with immediately ie a school summer disco organised for 2 weeks time and only a limited number of tickets available for each year group, tickets go on sale tomorrow at drop off (8.50am), so we had to factor in queuing up to get the tickets into the morning rush to drop the kids off and get to work. Definitely needs better planning

School have very quickly lost my goodwill as they just don’t help themselves sometimes

Why not blame your inflexible work place? Why not blame the government for not giving extra family days off for parents of young children?

Schools can’t do right for doing wrong can they?

Scrap all activities sports day plays Christmas concerts charity work - and just go back to basics.

Then parents can be responsible for all the extras in there own time.

Attitude to wraparound care tells you quite a lot about the school and the demographic they want. One we looked at had nothing for reception, another only had a breakfast class. Not hard to guess their attitude to working parents. Our school serves a deprived area where probably quite a few parents don't work, but they have always given lots of notice for events etc for those that do.

Attitude to wraparound care tells you quite a lot about the school and the demographic they want. One we looked at had nothing for reception, another only had a breakfast class. Not hard to guess their attitude to working parents. Our school serves a deprived area where probably quite a few parents don't work, but they have always given lots of notice for events etc for those that do

Hmm… it’s certainly an interesting one. Our local area is very mixed - probably the majority of women work, but also a fair few SAHMs and some non-working families. Real range of attitudes to wraparound care taken by schools.

There does seem to be a bit of a tension between how schools view themselves and how parents view what school is for. Often it seems to be the school’s attempts to champion (what they see as) the child’s best interests coming up against the reality of modern working families’ lives. One slightly old fashioned school we visited came in for a lot of flak for suggesting that some very young children don’t do well in after-school club, and to avoid wraparound care where possible in Reception. Some parents were hugely offended by this, and you can see why, but in my primary teaching days I’d regularly see Reception-aged kids crying, or acting up, or sitting exhausted in a corner, or even fast asleep in the hall after school. What works best for the parent isn’t always the ideal option for the child.

Our ‘best’ option locally for wraparound care is the new free school - they see themselves as very ‘modern’ and their big selling point is that you can drop your child off at 7.45am, nursery style, and pick them up at 6. There’s no PTA, no big school events, and parents never need to attend for parents’ evenings, assemblies etc. The ethos is that ‘We take your child, educate them and present you with the finished article’ (they actually said that at the information session we attended).

We avoided this school because personally I wanted more input in my child’s education, and more of a relationship with the school community. But I can see that it would absolutely be the ideal option for others.

I mean, my child is in reception and I do try to avoid formal wrap around care in favour of friends and family. It does work quite well and we are very fortunate to have that support network around us.
HOWEVER, wrap around care is an absolute god send and I would kick off massively if my school dropped it. Though I use it infrequently, I do still use it and have excellent peace of mind knowing it's there and that my son loves going and the staff are wonderful.

I wouldn't choose to use a school that didn't offer wrap around care as I would feel like they looked down on me as a working parent.

The poster you've quoted was talking about 3 mornings in one week instead of a full day, not that they never wanted to attend a school event. I think that would be more difficult to schedule than simply saying I'm not in on Wednesday for example.

Teachers presumably can't attend their own children's assemblies, sports day, tea parties etc.....because they don't have any flexibility in their work days/schedule.....
Other jobs might also have constraints, even those that are fairly flexible might not be able to permit 3 mornings or 3 half days in a week.

You are right when you say "it's always the mother" but where there is another parent or guardian why should the mother always be the one attending? Why not dad? Why should the female always be the point of contact, why the female always being the one taking time off to look after the child when sick?

Tempsperdu
My school experience was fewer trips and things like a trip to panto would be with Brownies not school.
Like I said DD went to a small private primary and there was much less in terms of themed days and trips. But all the children had working parents who would take them to panto or activities etc so less need for school to do it.