To object to my manager arriving at my house

[HerveLeger]

My line manager turned up at my house at 14:00 today. Rang the doorbell - I didn’t answer because I wasn’t expecting a delivery. I live in the middle of nowhere, I don’t get random callers. I don’t lock my back door. Next thing I know, my manager is in my house. “Just checking”. Apparently I sounded a bit weird in the team meeting this morning. Which is odd, as I didn’t actually speak in the team meeting. Am I BUR to find this completely inappropriate? She is a lovely person and I have had some mental health issues in the past. For which she has been very supportive. But this was one day - half a day, when I wasn’t present at work. She let herself in.. next thing I knew, she was in my sitting room. It was a bit scary :(

I work for myself so a bit removed from the workplace.

Are we saying this is the norm now the ? You’re in a team meeting at 9.30. Sound a bit strange. Team leader mentions it to manager. The next step is to go over to their house that very afternoon and after knocking let themselves in?
I would have assumed the next step would be to call the OP or message the OP and check up on them. Maybe arrange a meeting. OP could have been doing anything. Could have been wandering around naked in their own home. Could have been in the shower..
To me it’s a massive invasion of privacy.

Maybe things have changed since I was in the workplace.

Yep duty of care expectations have changed.

It’s more the process. So there’s no phone call or message in advance? A manager just turns up to your house and knocks then let’s themselves in?

I’m glad I work for myself! That sounds awful.

This seemed really familiar to me yesterday.
Now OP has been back and the police related job has been mentioned, it definitely rings a bell.
I have no intention of outing anyone, and in fact my search hasn’t helped (OP, I think you’ve had a username beginning with a V, though I’m not sure it was the one used in the thread I remember).
That thread had a lot of back and forth about whether they had or hadn’t rung you, and also involved a manager letting themselves into your house.
Is this the second time it has happened?

I have asked if there was no attempt at contact ( phone etc) before her manager came in and that has been ignored

OK, I found the thread that I think is related. They didn’t let themselves into your house that time, but did almost as much with faces to your window and hollering through your letter box. I don’t want to add more as it might make the thread searchable. I think you already had another job lined up, but still the same or a linked employer. Is this related to why your employer would react in this way? (which is not acceptable in my view, but might explain why if they’ve wrongly tagged you as someone to keep a close eye on)

So you people honestly think showing up at your employee's home without calling first and letting yourself in is appropriate? Glad I don't work for you. This is seriously bizarre behaviour 😂

@youlightupmyday quite a few posters replied to say the OP had said in an earlier post that she’d checked both her work phone and her personal phone and there had been no attempt to contact her.

@Testina, definitely not me. I think everyone is getting a bit hung up on the fact I mentioned mental health problems. It was years ago. It’s history. I am well and happy. I declared everything on my NSVS. I’m all good. This was not the point.

@Delatron I just re read and see that. But no mention of emails or teams messages. There is something very odd about this and I do think @Testina is onto something. There is something not quite right with the OP and her manager was duly concerned.

And all the poor PP who have, when on duty of care visits, found coleagues unwell or dead is being ignored too by those horrified that home visits can happen. My father found his colleague dead, many years ago in similar circumstances.

Katrizia127 It very much depends on Op’s MH issues. Employee may have previously attempted suicide, reacted badly to medication change, bad time of year for her due to bereavement etc.
Its sounds like manager was really worried to just go over.
It’s one of those you can imagine reading inquest and people saying why wasn’t something.
eg last time they altered Op’s bipolar meds she ended up attempting suicide and had 6 weeks off work. Manager knows Op had a meds review last week (she authorised time off for Dr apt) Op sounds slurred on phone and then disappears off Teams for 3 hours in a workday. Manager does nothing and it transpires Op overdosed. Fingers would be pointed.

@HerveLeger how long have you worked there, how well does your manager know you?

No ongoing MH issues or medication then it sounds very odd. Did she email/contact you via Teams. Have you had a follow up meeting where she’s explained?

Yes, but in that case the right way to go about it would be to have a police officer (I understand they work for the police but that doesn't necessarily mean they are police officers themselves) do a welfare check after contacting next of kin and not getting a reply. Apparently this manager didn't call first to check on her either, which you'd imagine would be the first step. Let's say something actually was wrong, what's the manager going to do? They'll call emergency services so might as well do that from the outset. I think it's just as likely that this manager is boundary stomping and inappropriate as it is that the OP did anything justifying this behavior. People itt are really bending over backwards to concoct scenarios that justify the manager's behaviour

Could it not be related to you Op? Had there been an incident in another team or mentioned on a training course or maybe in manager’s personal life. She’s heard you sound odd + disappeared and jumped to you are dead at bottom of stairs because that happened in x team.

Agree that posters are coming up with bizarre scenarios (not based on anything) to justify the manager’s overbearing behaviour.

OP has confirmed she has not had mental health issues for years and is very competent at her job. She has also reiterated that she has banked lots of over time so would be free to take a few hours as she wishes in the day. Her not being on a team messenger for a few hours shouldn’t ring alarm bells to the extent the manager lets herself in to her house with no prior phone call. She said she didn’t speak in the team meeting (but was on the call) so she doesn’t understand why it was ascertained she ‘sounded funny. Surely a quick phone call could check this?

To all those thinking this is fine/duty of care etc. Can you explain why the manager didn’t phone or message first? She just went straight to turning up at OP’s house and letting herself in?

The clarification of the MH issues was not explained until quite some time into the thread, mentioning it in the OP if actually it wasn't relevant seems bizarre? That's what many people are basing their opinions on.

I don't understand why you are so outraged that people have a differing opinion to you?

I’m not outraged @HELLITHURT
19% are agreeing with you 81% think the same as what I am saying.

I’m just trying to stick to the facts (rather than make up scenarios). And clarify inaccurate points. Such as the OP had a phone call before the visit (she didn’t).

I do admittedly find the fact people think this is ok as completely bizarre but nothing on Mumsnet surprises me anymore. I’m not outraged though...more perplexed that this now happens in the workplace and that’s fine.

And I agree. If it was an emergency situation (which is the only situation I think trespassing is acceptable) then surely the emergency services would be in a better position to help rather than a manager?

For someone who says she's had mental health problems, this sounds like a very kind and concerned manager.
The fact that you live out in the sticks, and visitors are not accidental... why did you not answer the door? I can imagine THAT is what made the manager concerned enough to try the handles. You were obviously at home when you had the meeting, something in your demeanor concerned them enough to come round, and THEN you don't answer the door? I'd have tried letting myself in as well at that point!

Despite what you may think, it's NOT normal practice for managers to let themselves into employees homes, and I'm assuming in all other ways, this manager has seemed entirely normal? So something must have triggered her actions. Are you actually, truly, honestly okay?

@HerveLeger the reason people are “hung up” about mental health issues is you haven’t clarified what/how serious they were. If it was serious enough that you needed to declare it then that is probably what is behind the excess of caution in your line manager.

You’re coming off as a bit defensive about it all really.

There is no doubt she was out of line, but you need to get to the bottom of why she overstepped the mark and then emphasise to her that everything is in hand and you’d prefer not to have her let herself in in future!

People do not drive out to houses in the middle of nowhere, 5 miles from the nearest town, and let themselves in without due cause.

Prior to a few weeks ago I would have said she crossed a line but last week a girl (with known mental health issues) didn’t come into work. By end of the day people worried so went round to house - she had hung herself. Sounds like her heart was in the right place.

Our neighbour's husband died in his sleep whilst working away from home at an office 100 miles away and staying in a flat near there on his own. This was discovered because he didn't go into work so colleagues went to the flat. She might have been concerned.

Yep duty of care expectations have changed

Duty of Care used to be in relation to Health and Safety rules, ensuring people didn’t have accidents in the workplace, weren’t exposed to hazardous substances, didn’t fall down a hole that should have had a barrier around it etc. it could also be expanded to e.g. ensuring a shift worker got home safely after a late shift, but not normally more than that.

From this thread there are a lot of people explaining that Duty of Care is now more generally to “make sure someone is OK”, even to the extent of checking whether someone got back from holiday OK, or recovered from a night on the lash.

Can anyone link to anything that explains when and why it changed?

I agree. The more the OP sounds the more difficult a person they sound to line manage.