The reasons we don't 'LTB'

[DogBirthdays]

Whenever I read a thread where someone is going through a hard time with their awful partner, everyone piles on to say LTB and rightly so. It's no life to be cheated on, lied to, disrespected etc..

But oftten the tone of the thread turns into blaming the victim of the situation for not having already left, or unable to do so immediately. Victim shaming. And leaves the person who needs to talk without support!

I tell you why I haven't left. Being married to one of these (perhaps narcissistic) people is dangerous. To your mental health, finances and emotions. Divorcing them is even harder.t

My H just won't let me go. He's a very very clever manipulator and has built up this public persona that is generous, helpful and an all round great guy. He helps others, organises get-togethers, is social and easygoing. Everyone thinks he's great. He does all kinds of things with the kids, takes them and their friends out. Buys flowers/chocolate whatever to anyone who's helped him/us.

I'm more introverted, don't enjoy get-togethers so much. I'm friendly but like my peace..

Behind closed doors he cheats, tries to control me financially, is verbally abusive. The children must obey him and showing negative feelings is not allowed. He criticises them too harshly. Character assassinates everyone. No one ever gets to express their views and be understood.

I tried to divorce him. He told me straight up it will get ugly. He wants all the money, the house and kids with him 50/50. We've been to couples councelling and he's even managed to convince them that I'm the problem here. That I'm too controlling of him.
Ive caller domestic abuse helpline and they adviced to thread carefully. With this wonderful public persona, there's no doubt he would get 50/50 custody, and I just can't leave my kids at his metrcy. At least now I can soften the impact.

I'm staying for now. Maybe until I've taught the kids how to defend themselves and they are old enough to. This is the reality many of us have to go through. Divorcing these people is war and you have to find the right time

God the app today...🤦🏻‍♀️

You could get legal advice & initiate divorce proceedings.

During that process, arrangements for who lives where, sale or otherwise of the house, would be made.

I'm not saying it's easy. Listen 9 years in & I am still not divorced & he's still exercising control. But nothing like if we were together.

I'm only saying it's a possibility.

Reading your post is like reading about my childhood with a narcissistic father and my abused mother.

I understand it’s hard and you want to protect the kids, but at the same time I would have given anything to get away from my Dad as a kid. His behaviour left me a right mess and with serious mental health problems. Mum thought she was protecting us but really it did more harm than good. I guess the difference is my Dad wouldn’t have given a shit about seeing us 50/50 because we cramped his style.

If you can get counselling for you and the kids without him, please do. Even maybe make sure he doesn’t know. You need to give your children the tools to know they’re worth more than a narcissist tells them they are.

@EarringsandLipstick i understand your point of view and you have clearly been through something similar.
Honestly, if I could I would leave him today. But hte will not let me tgo with the kids, and he won't leave the house. Unless I convince HIM to leave, police will be our only option and I'd hate the kids to see that.
I'm hoping at some point he gets tired of the no sex and cheats again or finds someone else. At which point I'll be ready.

@Loveabitofwood

That's such a sad post to read. I'm sorry. 💐
You are exactly right about 50% of the time (at worst) being in a stable environment.

My DC endure a lot of crap. From their feckless father but also they have a stressed & tired mother who often can't give them what they need at that point. I still think it's better. They are emotionally aware, confident kids; the basics in our lives are right. I know I haven't got everything right. But I hope I've done enough.

Perhaps a little different to OP's situation because narcissists can appear so reasonable but the thing I can't get my head round is how family courts facilitate ongoing abuse even after a woman has managed to leave.

So we have a woman in an abusive relationship who is exhorted over and over to leave, who is told that her children could be taken from her if she doesn't protect them.

So after she manages to leave, if her ex decides to pursue access or custody and she tries to block it she's then condemned for denying the man his 'right' to see his children. She's forced to both put her children in that situation and maintain a co-parenting relationship with her ex which is inevitably used as a conduit for continued abuse.

At least if she stays she can be with her children all the time. Why do family courts insist that children have to see abusive fathers? They are not good people.

I hear every word you’re saying, no judgement and I feel for you. I’ve worked with women in abusive relationships over the years and there are many reasons they stay, often financial or related to not wanting to disrupt their kids lives or lose custody.

All I can say, as the child of a mother who left an abusive marriage, is that there will never be a ‘right time’. Sooner is better for you and your children.

Abusive men keep control by keeping decent women fearful of what will happen if they leave. The reality of a split will be painful and messy, but ultimately it will mean the beginning of freedom and control of your own life for YOU and long term, it will set a powerful example for your children.

I am SO grateful my Mum left my Dad (or kicked him out, actually). She wasn’t ‘free’ of him for years, as he played dirty with money and access to us and pretty much stalked her for years. However, it was SO much less damaging than staying in that horrible, fake and unhappy family situation for her and for us kids.

My mum is my role model.

I know, I'm sorry.

I was fortunate in that one day he did something particularly terrible & I told him to leave - he did 5 days later.

I was only able to do that because I'd met with a barrister through a family connection about a week before & he told me it was over (I still thought we could 'fix' it.) Bluntly. When the event happened, I got the courage to tell him to go.

But 9 years on he's gone but we're not divorced. I really struggle with money, every day I'm stressed. Money, time. I work full time in a challenging job. I'm drained from that & not always there for my DC

So he's still 'in control' but he's not really

I've had lots of counselling & I'm a different person.

I will get there. The control will end. And I will be divorced with some certainty at least re the house / finances.

You could start divorce proceedings. He would then have to engage about the house, money, living arrangements.

She wasn’t ‘free’ of him for years, as he played dirty with money and access to us and pretty much stalked her for years. However, it was SO much less damaging than staying in that horrible, fake and unhappy family situation for her and for us kids.

That's exactly it.

Well done, your mum 🥇

Just to say I understand
100%. Been there, got the t-shirt.

But what I was surprised at was that actually not as many people were taken in by his act as I thought. Friends, acquaintances, family they'd actually seen through the facade and knew things weren't right, but were waiting for me to voice it.

Also the 50/50 thing. My kids and I were living 100% of the time trying to keep to Daddy's rules (which were never really stated, we just had to guess what was going to irritate him today). They were living seeing me being controlled, unhappy, disregulated. In the end I felt I was effectively condoning his behaviour and letting the kids think I thought it was OK, because I stayed and put us all through it.

Now they live 60% of the time with me in a happy, loving home where I can show them what real, loving relationships look like. What peace feels like. Where we can all just be us and joyful. 40% of the time yes they're with him, but they now have a sanctuary to escape back to. And the older they get the more they'll see him for what he is.

So yes, it's awful to leave a man like this and more than once I just thought I'd like to die and get it all over with, but once you have I promise you and the children will be happier.

OP, I hope he trips up big time and you and your family can get out without too many problems.

Grey rock technique is hard work but can be useful for avoiding any accusations of abusiveness towards you. Do keep your fitness levels up as it helps to deal with this stress.

Please, if you haven’t already, get tech savvy: passwords, encryption etc. Don’t allow the house to become too tech reliant: Alexa/echo controlled lights, heating and door locks are a potential nightmare if they’re remote controlled. Don’t accept smart phone/computer gifts from him. When you do leave invest in a VPN for all devices and change all default passwords on your new modem and WiFi.

The more accomplished ones know the power of the ‘fine, upstanding member of the community’. And when the doors close, the mask comes off. It’s made me a lot more wary of taking people at face value. These types are very attracted to those with structural and emotional vulnerabilities. They like charitable causes for an opportunity to showboat. Occupations and side roles with a sense of community purpose like policing, education and medicine are great for these types.

OP, please don't string this out for a few more years. Your children will suffer. Find a way to get out now - you will get support, you are entitled to money in a divorce.

I understand OP and I'm not going to victim blame by telling you to leave. I know it's not that easy.
I will say though that in the vast majority of these cases, the kids do come to realise what their dad is like. Once they are teens no one can force them to spend time with him whatever he demands.

I hear you.
I spent several years longer than I should have with an abusive arse (emotional/financial and eventually a few times physical) and my reason? Because he has always made it clear that he would go for 50/50 of the children. He has children from a first marriage who he managed to cajole into living with him as teenagers (he had money) and tbh he completely wrecked their lives, so I had a very stark and real warning of his parenting post divorce. I had always felt that while I was there I could “manage” his time around them and to an extent it worked.

Eventually I left and after attempts at reconciliation which were basically lies and lies with promises that never came to fruition, I got divorced.

If there is a “Wankers guide to Divorce and child custody” then he had read it, divorce was a financial battle, it cost me a fortune and I didn’t get what I should have, but I got enough. It was a horrendous battle though.
Immediately after he changed his work situation and stopped paying maintenance, then the papers for his 50/50 custody appeared.

Despite the kids telling Cafcass they don’t want 50/50 he has pursued this without let up. I’ve been to court 3 times so far, representing myself and I’ve listened to accusations that actually I am the abuser and I have mental health problems (I had to get a letter from my Dr to disprove this whereas my claims of DV are completely overlooked as being “historic”) however, he still doesn’t have his 50/50 or anything like that, and he opened a far bigger can of worms and a much harder fight than he ever anticipated.

My point is, it’s doable, but you need to be in the right headspace to do it. I have moments where I feel so free and lots of down moments as I contemplate thinking I’ve made life worse for the children because now, for Court, he’s suddenly super dad but I can’t even bring up the fact the man who loves his kids so much won’t even contribute to their food buying.

Its a fight, and you need to be strong. So you will do it, one day you will just have enough and you’ll just do it, but mentally you have to be strong enough.

@ILoveAnOwl that's really encouraging to hear. I will leave, but I do have to wait a bit.
There's a big family thing happening at the end of the year that he's threatened to ruin for everyone if I leave him. It involves extended family abroad and is something the kids are looking forward to so much. He's told me won't let the kids go if I divorce him, which would be devastating for the kids, grandparents, cousins..
So I'll play house for now..

Honestly the amount of women who admit on MN that they’re just waiting for their kids to get older so they can leave their terrible spouse makes me very sad. I’m so sorry that so many are in that position.

It’s not a choice I could make, but you know your circumstances better than anyone on here does.

I agree OP. A lot of people say LTB because they don't know the actual B involved. Sometimes leaving really is the nuclear option, the kids would have to change schools, leave their hobbies, never see their friends again. Because he would come after us. There is no amicable option.

I don't know if the children leaving everything and everyone they know, along with us constantly looking over our shoulders, really is the best option. By staying I can see freedom in my future. When the DC are old enough to have lives of their own I can too. If we flit I will be in fear of my life every day that's left of it.

@DogsBirthdays what I found was that the right time always became clear. You're doing brilliantly to see through his behaviour and to know you don't have to put up with this forever.

I had a picture in my head of closing my own door to my own house and being free and calm in that beautiful place. When things were awful I visualised myself there. I'm not there yet, but everyday it gets closer and I can't wait.

Agree. I also think it's important for some to take responsibility for their own part in the situation. Some people will absolutely not do so and the innocent victims who are the children have no say.

Op you are staying so that you soften the impact. You are also lengthening the toxic environment that the children are growing up in, normalizing the situation. And the longer you stay, what guarantee do you have that the kids will not want to see him or stronger in standing up to him. I think it would be the opposite, the longer the conditioning the harder to see right from wrong.

@AgentMagenta amicable divorce and coparenting are only things you can dream of with a B like ours ❤️

It SHOULD be the end of the abuse if you leave. That's what some of the posters honestly believe and that is why they get frustrated I think.
But in reality it is never easy, and if you are tied to a geographical area because of work or kids, or if you are tied together financially then an abuser will usually keep on trying to abuse. It's what they do.
I was lucky, I moved hundreds of miles away to my family, my work was able to transfer my job. Well before the internet so I literally disappeared.
Getting out can take years, because of the ABUSER, not the VICTIM.

You have made what you think is the right decision for you and your children in this moment? When they are older you will find out of it actually was the right decision. So many people grow up negatively affected by growing up in abusive situations and it colours the way they thing about themselves, conduct themselves, who they choose to enter relationships with and how they parent.

I'm not saying what you are doing is right or wrong but that only time will tell how it impacts your children. Ltb is sound advice in many cases and yabu to recognise that whilst it may not be the best choice in your circumstances it will be in other people's. It's never going to be easy and in some cases could be downright dangerous but each women needs to assess her own situation, we all have different limits.

Best of luck op, I hope you find a way out soon.

Sorry but do you realise how your comment is coming across to people who can’t leave for the children? You’re basically saying that women or men that can’t leave are doing a bad thing “if only she had left earlier” have you read the thread? Do you realise how devastating it can be? Thank you for this terrible awful thought that I won’t be able to let go of

@Herewegoagain11

It might be very difficult to hear and it’s not said without understanding the situation or empathy for the abused adult, having lived it and witnessed what my mother went through. However from my perspective as a child who grew up in a home like this @Wolfiefan is absolutely correct in what they say, it does leave a lasting impact and as a child you’re trapped until an adult steps up and changes the situation for you.

We all know children learn by observation and the drip, drip effect of watching a dysfunctional abusive relationship, realising you have to keep one person and one person only in your home happy to have any chance of a calm house doesn’t allow children to understand healthy relationships or how to set boundaries that protect them.

I was also a child in this situation, my mother left when I was about 7, it was the best thing she did. I remember the arguments, staying quite not to upset dad, seeing my mother become a shell of herself.

My relationships with men were wary - I never trusted any of them to do the decent thing, even 20 years married to a kind man, I’m still wary. My elder sister ended up in an abusive marriage of 25 years and walked out when he tried to strangle her. She’s not allowed to see her children as they have been turned against her.
My other sister has never had a full time relationship, a brief encounter saw her have her daughter. She’s been a single parent ever since. She will often date men for a few nights out but love isn’t something she’s interested in.

The damage is there.

We all attended dads funeral, a few years ago, none of us had seen him for about 30 years, his girlfriend looked worn, tired and old beyond her years, a shell of a woman no doubt abused and hurt by him for many years. We were glad he died, he couldn’t inflicted pain anymore. No one cried at the funeral. No one cared - we just wanted to make sure he was dead.

Yes we were poor, but we were free, and we cling together and had some good fun, we were happy.

I was the child also and luckily my dad didn’t want anything to do with me but these days it’s all about 50/50 if not wanting FT custody so how does that work for the children?