To worry one of my DC is much more 'likeable' than the other

[jublieetastic]

We've been at a street party and it's really brought this home to me.
My DC2 (8) has great communication skills, confidence and just has a knack with people. She seems to click with most children her age and all the adults today at the party were telling my how lovely she is.
My oldest child (11) has anxiety and is being assessed for ASD due to not very good communication skills. She is clingy and shy, and due to her anxiety struggles with regulating how she feels and acts even in public. But it's not so noticeable others would know why she behaves how she does.

It's great to see DC2 thrive and do well, but really tough to see the contrast between them and also how others perceive them. DC1 is getting more aware of this difference too and it is really effecting her self esteem and hence making her worse if anything. Anyone in a similar situation - any advice on how to handle it.

Op it all sounds really tough.

I know there's been mixed advice so far but as someone who works in this field, I would advise- your dc is motivated and wants to have friends and be included but doesn't yet have the skills. They are unlikely to come naturally to them- (like your other dc). They need to be explicitly taught- role play/ social stories/ lots of opportunities to hear good role models and then practice. But they can improve. I've seen how much progress children (all children) can make.

My 2 dc are a bit like this , my elsest now 18 just always very very shy and anxious socially, he has got better and has close group of friends and is even off to uni soon , which is a huge step, we just encouraged him but never pressurised , he is who he is
My youngest is much more sociable and confident
Just very different but thats ok , they are both happy and thats all that matters
My oldest will always be likely more reserved but thats him

Not sure how you can say that it’s ‘probably’ the case when you don’t actually know the girl. I’m going to go ahead and say that, out of the two of you, her mother’s probably got a better idea.

I was exactly like your DD1 as a child. Had few friends and painfully shy. As she is only 11, it might be an age thing-I was very mature for my age, and found it difficult to relate to other primary school kids. They seemed to want to run around and play games. At secondary she will have a larger pool of friends and might find her tribe. I only really started to find friends at secondary. I now work in sales and marketing, and don't lack self confidence and social skills!

What are her interests? Can she meet similar people through those? Neurodivergent people tend to cluster in certain areas, if you think she has ASD it may be worth trying out some of the interests that tend to have higher percentages of ND folks. I mentioned earlier that me and my partner met playing Dungeons and Dragons, for example. I’d say pretty much the entire society was some type of ND.

There are places where she will “fit in”, unfortunately school is rarely one for ND children.

I was outgoing as a kid. My brother the complete opposite. He was a weird kid really. Now I'm the unsociable shy one and he is life and soul and everyone loves him. It's hard when they are little but it also doesn't mean they will remain this way forever. Encourage don't push and focus on her resilience.

I disagree with Playtest. We can all change, adapt, smooth out our rough edges. It's my job as a parent to guide children through, accepting what they are and recognising that's ok. But also recognising what society expects and that those are the societal norms and we all need to adjust.

@playtest12 has it.

far better to help them accept who they are than try and “help” them with their social skills.

my mum tried throughout all my childhood. It made everything worse as I knew exactly what I should be doing for “people to like me”. I just didn’t know how, felt awkward and self conscious doing it, and most of all, didn’t enjoy it and basically didn’t want to.

I don’t think it’s a good thing to force kids to conform to societal norms, especially when they’re damaging.

I don't agree that they are damaging.

Probably because you like them. Not everyone does. And that’s okay. What’s not okay is forcing it on kids.

Me neither. We all do it.

Support both your children to bring out what's best in them. Don't compare them.

I have 4. Ds is the social butterfly. He has a charm and ease with people that means others gravitate to him. We often got comments as we grew up and now at20 we meet people who still recalls him fondly or who keeps in contact with him. We then get a general how are "the girls" well the girls are all great and doing well in life. Got their friends and such but they are not massive extroverts like ds. And that's fine. They have their own strengths and we support that. Dd1 is actually a extrovert like ds she just goes about it differently so her presence is less obvious but for those who know her they see all her good qualities.

Dd2 and 3 are both introverts so their social impact is different we have supported that ad they grew up

What they need is to be supported in being the type of person they wish to be. It doesn't make ds better that he has an ease with people or that he is a charmer. Though it likely will aid him in life. As people take to this. It just makes him different to his sisters.

I am an extrovert and I get tired from his social schedule. He thrives. So we support where we can (less now he is at uni) and we do the same for "the girls".

At the end of it all all 4 of them know they can turn to us when they need.

Social skills aren't just about being social. Being able to speak in public to one other person, address issues with staff, get a job, all sorts of things. They are social skills

disagree. I am perfectly capable professionally. I have a topic I know about, and can talk about for extended periods. I regularly give talks and training sessions, and speak at conferences. I know what I’m doing and am confident.

it just doesn’t interest me spending time with other people generally chatting. I don’t particularly care if people like me, and don’t want to spend evenings trying to get me to. Maintaining social relationships for me is exhausting, having to second guess what others are thinking.

i went away with a bunch of mums with a dc’s hobby recently and they all headed straight to the bar for cocktails, talking about having a drink, just not stuff I like doing.

OP you could be describing my DC. What I would say is give it a couple of years. When DD reached her teens she gained a little confidence and became able to hold conversations more easily. Still hard for her, but she masks well. The day she ordered her own food in a restaurant was a big step. Social interactions are hard still but mainly because the effort it takes from her drains her and she needs total silence afterwards. I think our job as parents of DC like this is to help them fit in as much as possible whilst always emphasising how we're not all the same and celebrating difference. My DD knows that her brother is lucky to have the gift of easy social charm. She knows she's lucky to have a photographic memory whereas he can't remember what he had for lunch. If your DD has a strength (great at sport, brilliant writer, talented musician, artist whatever) maybe put some focus there to build her confidence in herself.

@ForestFae

I completely disagree. Had it occurred to you that I wasn't just talking about me. I was talking about everyone, generally, universally. We all need to adapt, smooth out our rough edges, work at the bits we find difficult, constantly.

"Forcing it on kids"?
Forcing what? On whom?

Fair enough but if you were not able to hold a conversation at work or present at conferences that would hold you back surely? Doing that is social skills.

The child is either someone like forestfae or a child who is broadly NT but shy and keen to conform but needs some parental help with social skills to do so. There’s no blanket “right approach” it depends on the child.

In my family it was the latter and my mothers tough love and insistence on social skills was absolutely right for my painfully shy sister who is now incredibly sophisticated socially it’s part of her job. This is why parenting is so hard!

It depends what you want to do for a job, surely? I’m predominantly a stay at home mother but I’m also an artist. I do exhibitions and sell my work, and it so happens people almost expect artists to be a bit unconventional so no one gives a monkeys if I come over as awkward.

Youre right that there’s no one size fits all approach, but there is evidence that teaching neurodivergent kids to “mask” (conform to social norms) leads to trauma, PTSD and burnout later on

www.choosingtherapy.com/autistic-burnout/
www.spectrumnews.org/news/autistic-burnout-explained/

Personally I wouldn’t want to risk contributing to that as it’s really unpleasant

I don’t think it’s a good thing to force kids to conform to societal norms, especially when they’re damaging

we need to make children aware it’s ok to prefer reading a book to going to parties or shopping with friend.

it’s ok if you aren’t the child that always gets invited to those parties or aren’t in with the popular girls.

my mum actually discouraged me from swimming as a kid because she said when I got to teenage years I would want to be going out with friends rather than training, and I would get “big shoulders” and smell of chlorine. I was bloody good at it, then got to those teenage years and realised parties friends and boyfriends weren’t actually that great.

It would be lovely if it didn’t matter but it will help a child in life if they have conversation skills and can make low key pleasant small talk with others, ask them questions, make eye contact, not be totally awkward.. Not forcing them to be the jazz hands party central extrovert.

Many children are shy at this age not necessarily neuro divergent. You are advocating sitting back and watching a shy 11 year old flail and not step in to help them at all? Not sure most loving parents would take that approach tbh.

Exactly! I’m lucky, my mum is very much like me and is introverted too so she never made me feel strange or weird for preferring to read or draw than hang out with other kids. But I know loads of other introverted and or neurodivergent people aren’t as lucky and are constantly made to feel othered because of it. It’s very frustrating.

How? It will only help them if it’s something they want to do and enjoy, otherwise they’ll just feel drained and wonder why they’re “broken” and not like everyone else. Teaching people to mask doesn’t change the way they feel it just teaches them to repress it which causes more problems.

Plus I wasn't referring to ASD masking, which can be damaging, because there often is an element of 'pretending'.

I meant more recognising and adjusting and learning to do it things a bit more, comfortably. A bit like TerryPratchett referred to overcoming flying. We can work on things. They can become easier.

Not if they are 11 and just abit shy. People sometimes change massively. They might always be like that equally they may just want to learn then be entirely different as an adult.

That’s why parenting is so hard working out which approach is right for your child. If you don’t help a NT child that needs you to that’s not great parenting but on the other hand helping a child who will never learn and doesn’t want / cannot learn fails them too. You can’t put your own experiences onto everyone.