To think my husband is gravely ill at the wrong time? Thread 2

[MyOtherCarIsAPorsche]

Continuing from 1st thread.

Hi @MyOtherCarIsAPorsche I FOUND YOU!!! I fell off the thread and I have been worried about you. Firstly, so pleased your DD and babies are all so well. Secondly, I need to know whether your DH is capable of regulating his mood around others when you are not around. If so, his behaviour is a choice. If he has an acquired brain injury (which I suspect), I am not convinced that you are emotionally or physically safe. It is true that it is not his fault, but it’s not yours either. Your kids and grandkids want you to be safe and happy.

The friends he used to socialise with -are they still in contact?

[[//flowers] +[] for the weekend

@Fraaahnces
Hi there - I'm still here, 6 months on.

The worst he's done physically is throw his arms up in the air in anger when he's 'on one' (and it was in public - he walked off quickly and I couldn't keep up, so I had to walk home on my own). I could say with certainty that he would never touch me. Sometimes I think I'd rather have a black eye for him to see than the names he calls me. He can't see the lasting damage he does with words. The hurt seems to last forever. But I do stew - and I never forget.

We're all in the same car at the mo - FIL is driving. H is in front of me tapping his fingers impatiently on the car door.

I'm having a lovely catch up with M in the back. We're ok for now

@peridito
He has quite a wide circle of friends - they've all been quite good, checking on him, visiting him occasionally. One of his closer friends seems to have distanced himself - H said it's because he had a go at him but he did apologise. He's admitted that he's offended a few of them.

He's not fit to work - he can't do strenuous stuff now - he's still no strength. He's not going to go back to it anyway - he'll help our son out now and again eventually.

He can't play golf yet either - his chest is still painful when stretching.

He's more comfortable at home rather than his cold unit - where his cars are. He doesn't seem interested - he was in the middle of restoring an old Mini when he became ill.

Oh my goodness - just gone under a motorway bridge where all the cars are slowing because there are people dressed as cows waving at the traffic.

I've been reading your threads since the beginning. I work in mental health and I'm so sorry that you're in this terrible situation.

I just wanted to suggest that there may be some merit in thinking about him as having had some kind of dementia or stroke or neurological problem. However unlike some dementias where the thinking may be slowed down, he still sounds very sharp mentally in some ways: it's affecting personality, disinhibition, and other executive functions instead. Have you ever had bad PMT symptoms? That's the easiest parallel I can think of (unhelpful if you've not had it or seen it much though). Where an attack can be vicious and directed, but not feel recognisable once the rage has passed. This would be looking at personality changes related to changes in executive function.

It may be helpful to make contact with charities such as Headway, or with local health psychologists (via your GP or self refer to primary care psychology), to learn more about these things and perhaps access support for yourself. I'd also echo that when the rage grips him, if this is an executive functioning problems, then your husband does have reduced control. And that does mean that your physical safety is more at risk. So it might be worth ensuring you have access to exits in a room, to detect when his rage escalating etc. (I'm so sorry, that is so depressing to have to think about).

If you fancy a fairly long read, the case of Phineas Gage is interesting on Wikipedia, also has some fairly optimistic conclusions.

Great advice from PP @MyOtherCarIsAPorsche

@namechange5575

That's really interesting.

Gage was described as surly - that's a really good word to describe H. He's much less patient/pleasant with the grandchildren: he can barely tolerate them. I put that down to him not wanting me to child mind them. He can barely tolerate me. But he does emphasise that he is aware of how he's behaving and he says he genuinely doesn't mean to hurt me.

Also, Gage didn't work after the accident. H isn't interested in doing anything. I had put that down to depression.

With regards to disinhibition - H is not bothered about whether he shouts and screams at me in private or public. It's what makes me not want to go out anywhere with him. And the problem is: he's complaining that we don't go out together anymore. It's impossible.

Yesterday evening, the four of us were sat chatting and H was putting me down all evening. M made a comment 'H might find he wakes up with a bloody nose in the morning' and H said 'A (me) might not wake up' - H and his father thought it was hilarious.

I hardly slept - wasn't frightened, just contemplating life as a battlefield for the rest of my days.

Everything very jovial this morning, so far.

According to that wiki article Gage worked as a stagecoach driver after he had recovered sufficiently, bringing a semblance of beneficial structure and routine.

This passage was particularly striking I thought:

The equilibrium or balance, so to speak, between his intellectual faculties and animal pro­pen­si­ties, seems to have been destroyed. He is fitful, irreverent, indulging at times in the grossest profanity (which was not pre­vi­ous­ly his custom), manifesting but little deference for his fellows, impatient of restraint or advice when it conflicts with his desires, at times per­ti­na­cious­ly obstinate, yet capricious and vac­il­lat­ing, devising many plans of future operations, which are no sooner arranged than they are abandoned in turn for others appearing more feasible. A child in his intel­lec­tu­al capacity and man­i­fes­ta­tions, he has the animal passions of a strong man. Previous to his injury, although untrained in the schools, he possessed a well-balanced mind, and was looked upon by those who knew him as a shrewd, smart business man, very energetic and persistent in executing all his plans of operation. In this regard his mind was radically changed, so decidedly that his friends and acquaint­ances said he was "no longer Gage."[H]: 13-4 

That’s it exactly. H is no longer his old self , that person that you committed your life to no longer exists.

I’m sure it’s good for your family to see how he treats you - it validates what has been happening if there are witnesses

I've started sleepwalking again.

Woke up with a start - been difficult to get much sleep lately. I had two TV remotes in one hand and was lying on top of two further TV remotes. Threw the quilt back and I had taken my woolly socks off (wear them in bed to try and stop cramp) and it was obvious that I had been outside. The bed/my feet were filthy. There was mud/soil traces on the carpet.

Went downstairs and I've turned on every TV downstairs and turned up the volume. The back door was open wide. I went down the garden and H's garden room was wide open (huge sliding patio door) and the TV was on full volume. It appears I'd done this in the dark as there weren't any lights on - unless I'd switched them on and then off afterwards.

This is quite typical sleepwalking behaviour for me. It's happened before after traumatic events (car crash, birth of first child etc).

Feels like my life is a bit of a car crash.

I may be a little depressed/disturbed.

(Once I woke up and thought it's very light - I'm really late. The curtains were missing. I had taken down every pair of curtains from every window in the house and folded them neatly, in a large pile, in the centre of the dining room table. This included the curtains from all the bedrooms - no one had woken up. Once, H found me at the bottom of the garden in the middle of the night. I was standing under a tree. He asked me what I was doing. I said I was waiting for the bread nuts to fall and not the ginger nuts. It was the middle of winter. He realised I was sleepwalking and asked my name. I said It's Fingrow what's your name naughty boy. I've done worse when I've been in Hotels - there must be some very funny CCTV of me somewhere.)

Wow .You really are in difficulty aren't you ? Wake up call (see what I did there!) to take some action to change your life ?
Though I'm not sure what you can do .Counselling for you maybe .

Wow - sorry to hear this. Does show that you are in a pickle. Sending love xx PS I’m currently getting a pasting on AIBU eek!

@olympicsrock

Crozzled bacon and breaded dip - makes the best butty.

Explain in your usual hilariously eloquent way to make me laugh please xxx

And how was the rest of the trip ?

Crozzled, in my mum's words, means 'just this side of bont'. (Bont - her pronunciation of burnt.)

Breaded dip - buttered bread fried on one side in bacon juices.

So, crispy bacon between fried bread. Bacon butty in our home.

The rest of the trip. Because M took so long to get ready on the Saturday morning .... shower, getting dressed now, just doing my hair, just putting my face on .... in between mugs of tea, we arrived at the country show after my favourite event had ended (sheep dogs). FIL and M then sat at the main show ring for two hours watching what was going on whilst H and I stood behind them, shielding them from the wind. (Whilst we froze.)

Then, just when things were getting worth watching in the main show ring they decided that we should find the beer tent (they knew exactly where it was).

FIL, M and H had four drinks each and ended up 'sloshed' (I had half a stout). FIL proceeded to attempt to open several rows of port a loos which were occupied. H stood laughing at him. M vanished into one and wasn't seen again for 20 min.

By this time it appeared that things at the show were winding up and I had wanted to go and see the craft marquee and the exhibition marquee. I got 5 min inside each in the end as FIL kept wandering off to look at tractors and kept engaging the sales staff in his drunken ramblings. We couldn't split up and go our separate ways as our phones had no signal in order to stay in contact and meet up later, and only H knew the way back to our static caravan site. H felt a bit sorry for me and bought me four coasters in the craft tent (which I didn't want).

We set off back, it was half an hour's walk which seemed an age longer as they all kept disappearing behind various vegetation to pee at different points along the way.

H decided that we would have our meal at a nearby hall/hotel before we got back to the caravan. FIL was still very much worse for wear and read out every single item on the menu at the top of his unusually sonorous voice at full volume and I just sat with my head in my hands, wondering when this ordeal would end. M was crying during the meal as she was recounting numerous sad events which have occurred in her family recently and I'm sure that other diners were also in tears. Another four alcoholic drinks later (I had one soft drink) we made our way back to the static via a 'short cut' where we ended up getting lost and FIL ended up on his arse in a stream. Everyone was helpless with laughter apart from me because I was still processing all of the sad/shocking news imparted at the meal.

We finally got back around 7pm. FIL changed his clothes and started passing round more alcohol. Fortunately, all three of them were asleep before 7.30 - I have picture evidence... three sops dead to the world, catching flies.

I went to bed to read my book. H came to bed an hour later and told me to turn off the light. I went to another bedroom and continued to read. FIL and M went to bed an hour after that. I read about half of my book before I got to sleep.

The next morning FIL and M were miraculously ready for home at the break of dawn as they had to get back and pack for Bournemouth the next day. (Neither H nor I knew about that.) So we rushed to get our stuff together - H drove home like the boy racer he has become (no one dared comment) and we were back for midday, we've not spoken much since (H and I).

We're supposed to be going back there with daughter and grandchildren for half term. It will be a lovely break for the grandchildren if I can manage to completely ignore H and manage to force a smile on my face. I can't really refuse to go as H has bought me a new pair of extortionately priced walking boots as he said my Sketchers waterproof shoes were an embarrassment and not stout enough for country walks. (H bought himself no end of 'country wear' whilst on his earlier spending sprees, but looks like a misplaced nob wearing it all .... think Chris Eubank in his country squire attire.) He would be furious if I didn't go at half term and appreciate his latest 'gift' - also unwanted. Also, he's already told the grandchildren that I will be going.

I went for a long walk along the city walls this morning on my own ... and got stuck in heavy traffic on the return journey as lots of roads were then closed for an event. On my walk a lovely, lovely family asked me to take a photo of them holding up signs for their brother who was taking part in the event. It grounded me as I remembered that there are 'normal' families out there - it put things into perspective a little bit. I regained a bit of faith in humanity.

It's time to sort out my physical pain - maybe this will help me adjust better to the mental pain and the new/different fiddle which I now have to seemingly dance to.

It's probably me that has to now change - even though my instinct is to resist.

Do I really have to get used to all the verbal/emotional abuse and go along with his every whim just to maintain a one sided relationship?

Put up and shut up?

Lordy Gordy what a trip. Sounds awful. The best trip possible at half term would be of DH stayed at home to give you a break for him

Jesus. I would have dropped them at the caravan and driven home!

I don't know how you do it. I do know how you felt in the early days (posted under a different name then) as DH has cardiac issues. I don't know how you keep it together now.

And NO.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PUT UP AND SHUT UP.

I know you don't like bad language, but if you gave as good as you get, what would he do/think? would it shake him up a bit? because it bloomin' well should.

I do think that, as a relative (@olympicsrock what do you think?) you're almost hit harder than the patient.

I'm still not myself 9yrs on, DH shrugs and carries on...
he had a CABG, then yrs later 2 x lots of stents

@MyOtherCarIsAPorsche have just read your bacon butty brief and it reminded me of my youngest DS (he has just started uni)
His favourite is ' a bacon sandwich without the bacon'. So I would cook it. Slap it in the butty and then remove the bacon.
He loves a bacon fat sarnie :/

I am sorry about your husband the situation you find yourself in. I am sort of the 'husband' in your situation and have just had major surgery again.
Myself and my dp sat on a bench in the park Today with our dog and I asked him not to talk as I was in agony and his wittering meant I couldn't focus on trying not to pass out.
The dog sat between my legs- she gets it.
I wish you both peace and I kind of understand both perspectives. Not the abuse and nastiness but that you (the husband) feel so 'odd' and not yourself - I am going to make a hash out of this so should probably shut up!
Everything I had enthusiasm for has gone.
My dp has been granted counselling though and it starts next week which is a good thing :) as I have had an empathy bypass.

@hesbeingabitofadick

Yes - I do give as good as I get. That's the problem. I don't accept rude/aggressive behaviour from anyone. I call out any form of unacceptable behaviour immediately. This it what riles him - he thinks he should be able to get away with behaving like nasty piece of work. I certainly don't sit there and take it - but I'm wondering if I should change tack and let it all go over my head without a reaction from me.

@Stomacharmeleon

I can completely understand why he has changed behaviour. I have accepted that he's changed - that's probably why we're still hanging on by a very fine thread.

But my behaviour towards him hasn't changed - I can't see why I should be the one who needs counselling.

He, of course, can't see why he needs it.

Stuck now.

Ah, bless you. What a dilemma.

What about a third option? How about you walk away when he kicks off or Starts to escalate?

Essentially he's a toddler, but one you have no responsibility for anymore.

The behaviour of the in laws suggests that actually there was a veneer of learned pleasantness in your husband and he's now disinhibited and no longer bothers with it.

Practically speaking, you are not obliged to put up and shut up, nor is your current response working. So try retraining him.

"I will Go out with you to a restaurant if you behave well today."

If he doesn't want to, or misbehaves, go with a friend or on your own.

You must Carry on doing the things you enjoy and get comfort from.

You don't need counselling to be nicer to him, by the way.

You need it to survive yourself. It wouldn't be unreasonable for you to have pTSD.

You've been through the mill and are still suffering.

Get counselling for you, not him.

Oh gosh ,I meant counselling for you OP as a form of support ,possibly to learn coping strategies ,how to handle H .

Don't let it go over your head.
Especially when you're out or in company.
Call him out - he should be ashamed of his behaviour to you.

DH was on a pump. He's mainly back to "normal" whatever normal is but accepts being pulled up when on dodgy ground iyswim.

@picklemewalnuts

Yes - I have walked away. This incenses him.

I've calmly said that due to being on bypass he's starting to be aggressive again and I'm not playing his games - this also incenses him.

I can't trust him outside of the house, in restaurants, anymore as he's been awful in public (raising his voice at me, gesticulating/waving his arms about aggressively) since we started going out together again over the summer. I will not go out on my own with him again. I need witnesses with me in order to confirm my version of events as he twists my words to make it appear as though I have started something.

Having said all that we've been cooking together this afternoon and he's been great. He put his arms around me and kissed my neck and said You do know that I adore you and we're together forever. (I'm crying now. 🙄). It's such a bloody shame.

He's offered to have two grandchildren tomorrow so that our daughter can go into school half an hour earlier at pick up time so she can look at our granddaughter's books. And ... he's still amenable several hours later. This is a good, long run of nice behaviour. I get the feeling though that he's really trying hard and finding it difficult to contain himself. I feel like the nastiness is bubbling just below the surface. He did not like that I went and did 'our walk' around the city walls this morning on my own.

I've said that I'll never trust him again - in private or public to behave appropriately towards me at all times. He knows I mean it. I just know that he can't promise anything at the moment - he's let me down and hurt me too much this last 6 months. I'm only trying to prevent myself from being hurt again. I feel stupid that I put myself in harms way so many times and gave him the opportunity so many times to abuse me. I should have distanced myself from the start.

An ICU nurse heard him speaking to me on the phone within 24 hrs of his operation. He rang me and is adamant that he didn't. But the phone call was registered on both our phones and the nurse confirmed to him what he had said to me. She then rang me and asked me if he would normally speak to me like that. She said the anaesthetic wouldn't have worn off yet and he didn't realise what he was saying. I said he has never spoken to me like that before and he wouldn't get the chance to again - but it continued. And I allowed it to continue.

I drive myself insane going over it all again and again. Round and around in circles, asking myself if it's my fault - as he insists it is. But there's been too many observers now who are shocked by the changes in him. He doesn't even look the same. His facial expression is 'harder' - that's the only way I can explain it. He looks aggressive - instead of kind, soft and bloody gorgeous, like he used to be. Right up until the day he became ill - I would still get 'flutters' when he walked into a room. There's never been another man I have thought better looking/ a nicer person. Now I just fear how he will behave every single day - right from the moment I wake up and I see a pig of a man - not my lovely husband.

I recently took my wedding ring and eternity ring off - he didn't like that either. I've told him that until he starts speaking to me with respect, he can't possibly love me and I can't possibly love him. I know he's incredibly frustrated. He screamed Of course I f/ing love you, you stupid f/ing fat bag.

I told him I'm not stupid, not fat and not a bag - this incensed him further.

We're stuck - it's a waking nightmare. Literally - it's probably the reason I have started sleepwalking again.