To encourage my dad to leave my mum

[Clementinemist]

My mum (61) has always had crippling anxiety that has severely affected my family, but its to the point now where she won't do anything or go anywhere at all. But she is constantly telling me how depressed she is, and she keeps having panic attacks and calls me at random times of the day and night. All she does is sit at home and procrastinate. She's spoken to her GP, been to all kinds of therapy, done antidepressants, pills, mindfulness, all the usual things over the past 30 odd years. The fact that she's lacking any sort of life is at the heart of her problems but she seems unable, and to be honest unwilling, to do anything about it. It's like she's got comfortable just pottering around the house and doesn't care to do anything else now. She's basically just waiting to get old and die.

I honestly don't know what to do. It sounds horrible but I'm dreading the next 30 odd years of this. It's only going to get worse. My dad has floated the idea of divorce a few times over the past year. He's 64, retired recently, wants to downsize to the coast (about an hour away) and travel the world, but mum doesn't want to. (And she doesnt want him to go either). Aibu to encourage him to leave her? Might give her the wake up call she needs? Or sink her into worse depression? It's all causing such sadness and stress in our family, I just want everyone to be happy. I honestly don't know how I can support her anymore.

fUNNYfACE36
Your mum is ill and your father chose to vow tat he would stick with her.Does that count for nothing?

So what’s your solution then? That they live like this for the rest of their lives? Then OP lives with the guilt that she did nothing to help her dad for the rest of her life?

I can't stand the guilt tripping that goes on when people express how hard it is to live with someone with a severe mental illness.

Yanbu OP.

OP my mum and dad were in a similar situation although my dad started travelling the world and he wanted mum to come with him. Plus her anxiety meant she did not want to be alone. So what my dad did was write is list of reasons she would not travel and he addressed some of these - like they moved to a house that was easier to lock up and leave. And then he bought a caravan and started small - a few weekends a way building up to a few weeks away. To building up to tours overseas and now they are planning on travelling around australia in a campervan. Going from doing nothing to travelling around the world is a big leap - maybe he should see if she would start small. But that said I do think he has a right to life and anyone saying in sickness and in health...yes what about the health - he is healthy and she should find a way to let him do what he wants to do too before he starts getting too old to do it. And no one has counted he has given a lot of good years of his life to look after her by the sounds of it. That must count for something.

I have depression, anxiety, BPD, OCD. I am no stranger to mental health issues and have had periods where I've been house-bound by them. But I put the work in to help myself and engaged with the services and medications available. Your mother has not done this by the sound of it. It might be an unpopular opinion, but mental health, while it is of course a disability, is often far more within someone's control to overcome than people like to admit. You can't medicate away a physical disability, but you certainly can lead a fulfilling and functional life with a mental health issue if you are willing to work with the help you can get.

It isn't her fault she has these issues but no, she should not be given a free pass. Even if there really is nothing that will work for her, that doesn't mean your father has to shrink and curtail his life to accommodate her. I would say the same if it was a physical disability too. It's not blaming the sufferer or being ableist to say that while it isn't their fault, it's unreasonable to expect others to neglect their own needs and desires to accommodate them. Yes, it's a shame and it's unfair, but why should her needs trump his? I would support him in divorcing her OP and make it clear that you won't be stepping in to replace him as her carer.

YABU. It's not your place to encourage anything. They are grown adults, it's their relationship , do not get involved, nothing good will come out of it.

Be very careful not to let them both draw you in op.

Your Dad is playing the victim and looking for your blessing to relieve himself of his responsibilities and encourage you to fill the gap he leaves.

He has been married to your Mum for years - he needs to be a grown up and say to her that he wants to travel and find a way it can work. And if that means splitting up, then that's their decision to make.

Your Mum suffers with her mental health but is able to make decisions for herself. They both need to stop looking to the audience for a reaction and crack on with the adulting.

You need to copy your brother and not be so reactive to their needs/demands. They are both still young and you could have another 30 years of caring for them if you start now.

I think you should support him if he chooses to go, OP.

I would let your dad know that you support him if he wants to travel and if he wants to divorce. Apart from that, I wouldn't get involved.

Does he need a divorce? he could do the travelling etc, without her.

I think you need to stay out of it but perhaps float the idea of some solo travel for him in a way he knows you'd support it

So many “me first” types on here advising the OPs mum be abandoned by her family and left with no carer. I guess to some people, the disabled are subhuman and disposable.

I don't think anyone views OPs Mum as subhuman. But if she had a physical disability, it would quickly be recognised that there should be provision for care, respite stays etc to share Dad's load. He wouldn't be being told by posters to cope alone.

And if Mum was physically disabled, but declining to use mobility aids and insisting Dad stayed by her side 24/7 and personally carried her everywhere, people would recognise how unreasonable that was of the disabled partner.

No one’s saying he should cope alone. That is quite different from not divorcing someone because they are disabled.

And the OPs mum hasn’t declined any of the help offered to her, in fact she has actively sought help. The OP stated She's spoken to her GP, been to all kinds of therapy, done antidepressants, pills, mindfulness, all the usual things over the past 30 odd years

I don’t think the OPs mum is being unreasonable in the slightest. People are simply judging her as undeserving disabled because she hasn’t recovered. Not everyone with MH disorders recovers. And those that are lucky enough to have recovered, tend to ignore the part luck played and scribe it solely to their hard work. It’s not different from the Tory perspective on the deserving poor and thinking people are poor because they are lazy and simply aren’t working enough hours or haven’t had the wits to get a higher paid job.

@Discovereads read the OPs subsequent posts. Doesn't sound like her mum has really engaged with the therapy and treatments on offer. No, not everybody can or does recover from mental illness but its even less likely if you won't make the effort.

OP said her mum only goes to one therapy appt and then quits. That is definitely not trying to get better, therapy isn’t a passive thing you have done to you, it’s work! It’s a bit of a controversial term but look up ‘secondary gain’ OP.

Oh and stay off the drama triangle! Your dad is a big boy and needs to work his own stuff out.

Right so we are doing the deserving disabled vs the undeserving disabled then. You think the OPs mum is undeserving. I don’t do that as it’s just as ethically hideous as distinguishing between deserving poor and undeserving poor when deciding who deserves help and who should be thrown to the wolves.

If Op’s mum had a physical disability and didn’t take her medication, go to any physical therapy on offer, chose not to use the equipment she needed, didn’t look after herself at all this would still be a mental and emotional issue and not a physical disability that is the issue. It still would affect her family and still be hard to deal with.

Many people with a physical disability adapt their life accordingly and try to make the best of what they have in life the best way they can do. There are vast ranges of physical disabilities so I am not sure how it can be compared. Are you comparing it to someone in a wheelchair? People in wheelchairs can live very fulfilled lives and technology is now amazing, the world is very wheelchair friendly. Are you comparing it to someone with a terminal illness? That doesn’t seem comparable. Comparing it with someone who has genetic defects? Everyone will have their own challenges in life to cope and manage and navigate. Staying indoors waiting to get old and die when you are 61 and in very good health is truly tragic for OP’s DM and I can see why it is so difficult to understand.

i am quite sure it sounds like from the OP that all of the family have made many adjustments of their own for many years to cater for the DM’s fears and anxieties - OP will have had a stressful and difficult childhood worrying about her parents and now seeing them live a sad half life. it is entirely understandable to be frustrated with someone who could, but chooses not to access help and support

I will use my own DM as an example.

she is like Op’s mum in many ways. She is in 60’s

last year my DM had a hip replacement. We had been telling her to see a doctor for 5 years as she couldn’t walk at all anymore. Despite not being able to walk, in agony, for 5 YEARS she would not go to the GP. We had chat after chat. She couldn’t come to anything we organised with our DC, her grandchildren. For 5 years, we had to do all of our family events, everything, with her sitting down as we felt too guilty to do anything without her. She could not do a single thing. Every Xmas, birthday etc she just sat there, complaining. My Dsis cracked up in the end and told her to see a GP. She got a hip replacement on the NHS.

after the hip replacement, she wouldn’t do any of the exercises and decided she wasn’t going to do much walking even though they told her to. She told social services that she didn’t need any help and I had to go there every fucking day (despite work, kids) to do all kinds things for her, some of which she could do herself, like put food wrappers into the bin and she lied to me there was no help from social services. After 12 weeks I refused to go back to help, she still wasn’t walking and would only get up with a walking frame to walk a short distance. She also wanted to carry on wearing support stockings even though she didn’t need to. I took her to a physio appt where they gave her a massive telling off and eventually she conceded to try some crutches. She doesn’t need crutches - she’s in no pain now, takes no meds, the hip replacement is perfect - she will still not walk unless she really has to.

Even though she can WFH in her job, she’s now decided she can’t do that either and is taking early retirement to sit at home, wait to get old and die.

what a life to lead

@Menora oh my lord your mum sounds so similar to mine. It’s so frustrating isn’t it! it’s interesting to hear another similar story. No one I know in real life has experienced anything similar so I often feel like I just a very harsh person for getting annoyed.

My mum has an underlying health condition that has impacted her cognitively and physically. However her condition is so much worse than it could be because she doesn’t do the things she’s needs to do to see an improvement. Even basics like going to her neurology appointment. My mum doesn’t do any of her physio, refuses to go out anywhere, does as little as possible because my dad will do everything for her. Over 30 years I’ve watched her slowly do less and less, always doing just less than she is actually capable of and then further loosing ability to do things for herself.

can I ask if you think the professionals (drs etc) address or recognise their patient is not following treatment/advice? My mums drs don’t mention it. My mum is having her shunt altered as her scores on the cognitive and mobility test they do at her neurology appointment have worsened. However since her last test she has had months not doing her physio, or indeed any form on movement (she only leaves her chair 2-3 times a day to be wheeled to the toilet) and she doesn’t do anything active to stimulate her mind. She just sits in her chair all day. I’m not sure how they could determine that worsening tests were caused by the fluid in the brain and not just by an increasing lack of activity. Obviously it could be either/or/both….but I find it odd they don’t mention life style at all.

I agree with PP's that you mustn't get involved in your parent's relationship. Your Dad is looking for your approval to potentially leave your Mum and it's none of your business, quite frankly, he's being unfair. I'd tell him that their relationship is their business and that you can't get involved - but you'll continue to love them both regardless of what he decides.

My Dad has lifelong MH problems and isn't well at the moment with crippling anxiety and depression. I've been supporting him a lot recently, but I realized a long time ago that I also need to live my own life and I can't let his problems drag me down. To do this, you need to set some boundaries, e.g., no phone calls during the night, because it's simply not fair.

It's hard, OP, but your parents need to sort out their marriage themselves and you can still be kind and supportive to your Mum without getting too embroiled. Good luck.

It’s like a kind of learned helplessness and avoidance of reality. No the doctors say nothing. Occasionally someone like a physio will ask her WTF is going on. I think it’s because doing anything outside her comfort zone is scary. I’m sorry to hear about your DM’s health. It must be really awful for you to watch it happen

The saddest part is my mum used to travel when she was young, she had lots of friends and potential in life. For the last 20 years she’s made no effort to keep friends and doesn’t seem to understand why her grandchildren aren’t very interested in her. She will often sit in a room with all her grandchildren who she hasn’t seen for a few months and spend the whole time talking about herself and her ailments and all the restrictions she’s placed on herself

I voted yabu because I don't think you should either encourage or discourage your father to many any decisions about his marriage. It isn't your place. He is an adult and can make his own decisions.

I understand the situation with your mum. My own mum is very similar. It is difficult, but she is ill.

Their relationship is just that... their relationship. Don't stick your nose in where it doesn't belong.

What happened to 'in sickness and in health?' Your mum is ill ffs.

Do you really think if he leaves she'll suddenly 'snap out of it?' Much more likely you will be dealing with the fall out.

Don't interfere in their marriage.

OP I do understand your worry and frustration. But I'd stay out of it and support both your DPs to the best of your abilities, and that means withdrawing when it affects you too negatively.

All this talk of deserving and undeserving disabled is a red herring, plus only people who are children of of parents with MH problems and have or had MH problems themselves can begin to understand the OP's situation.

It's simply about when things have got to the point of no return. When enough is enough because the ill person is making everybody else ill too.

I'm not comfortable with the idea of actually encouraging your father to leave/divorce but I certainly think you could research and lay out some options which might give them both an acceptable way of living.
If they sold the existing house could it fund a small flat nearby which would make a nice, secure home for your mum and a base for your dad. Sheltered housing might be an option, that might make for a more engaging life for your mum as there would be a communal area where she might meet others. And there would be support there. Which might enable your father then to indulge his interest in travel.
Would that leave enough money for a holiday home by the coast (even perhaps a static caravan) that could become your dad's bolt hole?

Stay out of it. Your father is an adult who can make his own decisions without undue influence from you.
Do you hate your mother so much that you would encourage her husband to abandon her