To encourage my dad to leave my mum

[Clementinemist]

My mum (61) has always had crippling anxiety that has severely affected my family, but its to the point now where she won't do anything or go anywhere at all. But she is constantly telling me how depressed she is, and she keeps having panic attacks and calls me at random times of the day and night. All she does is sit at home and procrastinate. She's spoken to her GP, been to all kinds of therapy, done antidepressants, pills, mindfulness, all the usual things over the past 30 odd years. The fact that she's lacking any sort of life is at the heart of her problems but she seems unable, and to be honest unwilling, to do anything about it. It's like she's got comfortable just pottering around the house and doesn't care to do anything else now. She's basically just waiting to get old and die.

I honestly don't know what to do. It sounds horrible but I'm dreading the next 30 odd years of this. It's only going to get worse. My dad has floated the idea of divorce a few times over the past year. He's 64, retired recently, wants to downsize to the coast (about an hour away) and travel the world, but mum doesn't want to. (And she doesnt want him to go either). Aibu to encourage him to leave her? Might give her the wake up call she needs? Or sink her into worse depression? It's all causing such sadness and stress in our family, I just want everyone to be happy. I honestly don't know how I can support her anymore.

Don't encourage him - that; snot your job. But do trell him you wouldn't judge him if he left and you'd fully understand and support his reasons.

What I might encourage him to do is to go on holiday for a month alone, leaving her to cope. She might find she gets bored. If she calls you up just say, 'Mum, you can cope. You are capable of this. I have complete faith in you being able to handle this.' Then don;t jump to her aid. She might take some steps towards independence.

Sorry - awful typos!

Your poor mum, it sounds like she is in a lot of mental anguish and here you are as her daughter plotting against her.

In your position I would not be taking sides and encouraging my dad to do anything, quite frankly it’s none of your business. Let him know he has your support and let your mum know the same. Be careful what you wish for - if they do divorce and he moves away, your mum’s care will likely fall on your shoulders.

Well, he's been with her 30 years. at what point did OP decide he should leave?

Its in the OP where she’s said,

My dad has floated the idea of divorce a few times over the past year.

This

Why do you wrongly think mental disorders are within a persons control?

The potential for accepting help and recovery is within a person's control. Same with a physical illness or injury.

This sounds awful but I'd be encouraging him to leave. Sounds like he doesn't actually like being around her any more. If he doesn't want to be with her then divorce and cite irreconcilable differences.

Don't encourage him - that’s not your job. But do tell him you wouldn't judge him if he left and you'd fully understand and support his reasons.

What I would do is encourage him to go on the holidays to places he’s always wanted to go. Perhaps for just a week at first. Also to get involved in day to day activities where he meets people and has some fun.

Things must have come to a head for OP now her dad has retired. These early days of retirement when people are still physically fit tend to be fulfilling for most people. OP’s dad now has very little to look forward to than carrying on the same way until he grows to old to do any different.

You have no idea of the level of terror that is every waking moment of your mother's life. I expect you've told her to pull herself together? Didn't work? No. She needs more medical intervention as she obviously isn't getting help from her family. Poor woman.

No, she doesn't get to burden everyone for their entire lives with her mh issues.

This. It's very sad, but if nothing helps her, it doesn't make any sense to allow it to ruin more lives than hers.

A friend with a lot of MH issues once told me the work involved to get past some things was like giving up smoking, it's a long game and at first you feel like all the effort you are putting in only makes you feel crap.

Even if its not the OPs mum's "fault" she is sick it's still totally unreasonable for her dad to have to spend the rest of his life shut up at home to accomodate her. It's not like she's trying to meet him halfway - maybe she can't. But he has a life to live, and so does the OP.

I don't think OP should interfere in her parents' marriage - that wouldn't end well for OP - she'd be sucked in even further.

But I do think she's entitled to be extremely frustrated that her DM is not engaging as much as possible with the opportunities for help that she has been offered.

OP I think you would do well to begin to ease yourself out of this enmeshment. It is really not healthy to be in a position to be advising your parents on their marriage - ugh! I kind of sympatthise with your brother tbh!

When your Mum calls you and insists on your attention, you need to start gently - then if that doesn't work, firmly - directing her to her health care professionals. "If you're that bad today Mum you need to talk to your doctor/mental health support service/whatever."

"I'm not a mental health professional Mum, I don't know how to help. I want you to be seen properly to get better". On repeat.

You can't save either if your parents. That's their job. But you can save yourself. You don't say if you have a partner or children but if you do, you are letting your parents take a LOT if headspace time and energy that should be theirs. But most of all, you are letting them rob you of your own headspace. Reclaim it. Be more like your brother.

Victims aren’t always nice people. Sorry for DM, but she’s damaging other people.

You can’t put someone on fire out by setting light to yourself. DF should travel, and decide on divorce while his head’s clear abroad. Something tells me he’ll leave permanently.

But one person is not more important than another. Your mum feels the way she does, and your dad feels the way he does. Both valid.
I would suggest going on holiday to your dad. I agree that counselling would be a good idea.
But ultimately it’s up to them what they do, it’s not your responsibility, be supportive yes, but don’t take a load that isn’t yours to take.

So your dad has mentioned divorce already - I imagine he's planning to leave and was checking how you are likely to react.

Don't get drawn further in to their relationship.

It's not your job to counsel your dad OR your mother.

I'd be concerned that the fallout will involve you. That's not a reason for him not to leave but you do need some boundaries with both of them.

It's hard I know.

She needs more medical intervention as she obviously isn't getting help from her family. Poor woman.

Poor family. It’s sounds like they’ve given their last 30 years to help and accommodate the mum.

What a difficult and painful situation for all of you.

I agree with pp who say that - being hard-headed - if your father did divorce your mother and (in effect) refused to support her issues any more then she would turn to you more. Divorce is kind of a fantasy all-or-nothing idea and although it's understandable that your father thinks about it sometimes, it's not realistic and he's not really considering the effect on you.

Your father is effect your mother's carer. So the question becomes, are his needs being met? Is he getting any emotional or practical support himself? What is his support network? And what about you?

I come at this as the child of a very anxious father, my mother supported and resisted my father's anxiety for many years, until in her early seventies she had a mental breakdown herself and the roles were reversed until her death 10 years later. We children - by then adults with families of our own - supported our parents as best we could, including overriding my father's wish to care for my mother at home when she preferred to go into care.

You and your father both have the right to maintain your own mental wellbeing and to set boundaries. Your mother ringing all hours of the day and night is not ideal, you might even need to get a second phone and to switch off the phone off your mother uses at night. Equally if your father needs a holiday then he should go, maybe without your mother, or maybe with you for support. If your mother can't be left or will just hassle you instead then you and your father need to confront that possibility and either you agree to make yourself available while he is away or else buy in some professional respite care.

It's a mistake to think that "lacking a life" is at the heart of your mother's problems. I suffer from mild anxiety myself. I think of anxiety as a kind of pressure on me to shrink and shrink my life. It's wonderful when I can push the walls right back again and expand my life, but the pressure comes back. And sometimes it takes all the pushing back that I can do just to stop my life shrinking. I know rationally that pushing the walls back helps me, but that doesn't make it easy or even possible at times. Your mother's anxiety sounds much worse than mine (as my own mother's was) and she may not be able to do that, I know my mother wrestled her own anxiety for many years before her breakdown. And when you live with someone who has that intense anxiety it can be very hard to resist having your own life shrunk too, to avoid the other person's panic attacks or suicide attempts or whatever the consequences are.

So it is important for you and your father to set boundaries and push back, and for your father to meet his own needs. If divorce is the only way he can find to survive then you'll have to deal with that, but I wouldn't either encourage or discourage him. Rather than trying to make everything better somehow I'd be looking at support and respite and boundaries - for both of you.

I get that mental ill health is difficult but many people lead active lives and fight daily to keep themselves well.

My DM did not and eventually refused to take any medication. She didn't want to do anything because it would not completely revolve around her. Wherever she went (when she did go places) she would just sit and expect to be waited on. Everything was hard work.

The best thing my DF ever did was divorce her. She wanted the divorce because I think she expected him and her AP to support her.

I would encourage your DF to live his life with or without her. But I would also make it clear to your DM that you are not her carer.

In sickness and in health.

Imagine if this was about physical disabilities.

fuck me.

I can see why you'd think it was time to cut ties after a lifetime of that.

I wouldn't encourage your dad to actively leave her but if he wants to travel/do things without her because she can't/won't then he should be able to.

I would but can you also please google inattentive adhd and see if that applies to her? It’s a tragedy but people think adhd is young children born as boys being disruptive in class - in adult hood lots of people born as females discover after decades of anxiety they have inattentive adhd and struggle with motivation (dopamine imbalance) and executive function issues. The right help (and possibly the right meds) could change her life and your’s. Adhd is hereditary so if you have others in your family with it the chances of her having it is increased.

Your mum is ill and your father chose to vow tat he would stick with her.Does that count for nothing?

The potential for accepting help and recovery is within a person's control. Same with a physical illness or injury.

^This. People who refuse to get help (and I have plenty of experience of this) are just drains on those around them. Doesn't her dad deserve a life too or should he give up on all his dreams and desires to join his wife in sitting in the house 24/7 until they both die?

Exactly! It may not be the dm fault, but that doesn't mean the rest of her family have to put just suck it up forever more. They have been burdened enough for 30 years. Sounds like the entire family life revolved around this, do they just resign to it forever.