To not understand why the 'woman' question is so hard for politicians to answer?

[Themidnightpig]

Genuinely not sure if I'm missing something here.

Constantly seeing it in the news politicians being unable to answer or getting flustered over the 'do women have penises' question.

Surely the answer is as straight forward as 'No, women don't have penises but some Trans Women do and as a decent society we treat them as women in so far as possible'

Why is this so hard for everyone to grapple with?

Given the difference in opinions about what their answer should be, even in this thread, they're not going to be able to win whatever they say.

If I see in the public eye on any way, if avoid answering the question too.
Jeeze, we all know what happened to JKR. Why on earth would anyone choose to put themselves in the firing line if they have a position they want to keep? There will be a lot of us in this thread who would be risking their job or their reputation if they gave an honest answer. And they're not even in the public eye.

"Woman do not have penises. As a society, this fact does not preclude us from acknowledging and respecting individual's gender choices, where doing so does not negatively impact others."

How's that?

Given the difference in opinions about what their answer should be, even in this thread, they're not going to be able to win whatever they say.

Im not sure it's about that. Biological fact should be respected and pretty ridiculous they don't have the balls to state basic truths.

I work with intelligent, educated, professional women. The overwhelming preference is for inclusion over women's rights. I don't hear the women's spaces argument ever and if I try to introduce it, people genuinely don't care.

This surprises me. I also work with intelligent, educated, professional women and my experience has been the reverse. The preference has been strongly for women's rights and the protection of women's spaces, to the extent that the reverse position is considered laughably woke.

Why on earth would anyone choose to put themselves in the firing line if they have a position they want to keep?

We can't keep cowering from the bully boys. Thank fuck for JKR and her refusal to be silenced.

Ooft, don your hard hat OP.

On here, the party line is pretending to be confused as to how a woman can possibly change sex and very graciously list your 2 percent of very generous acceptances you will allow trans people.

The reason they can't say that is because the 'feminists' would be up in arms, but I totally agree with you.

Yeah, it's gone really well for her.

Put pretty respectfully, and on the money completely.

Women women women women women echo chamber.

Yeah, it's gone really well for her.

Some people have courage and principles and others don't. 🤷‍♀️

There are more important things than being lauded on Twitter.

pretending to be confused as to how a woman can possibly change sex
I'm genuinely not pretending.

I'd bet my house JKR has just backed herself into a corner and now has to carry on.

@Johnnysgirl I think that's even worse.

Absolutely this.

Younger women tend to have bought the narrative that they can do anything men can and the old sexist barriers have been torn down. I know I did.

Young men and women often have opportunities and pay that look quite similar at the start of their careers. It’s not till you get into your thirties that the gap starts to appear and having children is the absolute game changer in terms of inequality of opportunity thereafter.

I'm not arguing any further with you. Your posts don't contain a glimmer of reason.

Bye.

Trans community = ‘most marginalised’ seems hard to swallow when every major institution (including the police force, the judiciary, prisons service, the NHS, the BBC) proudly fly the trans flag at every opportunity and bend over backwards to accommodate gender ideology. There are zebra crossings painted in trans flags. Masked men can get away with assaulting women speaking in public about issues pertaining to women under the name of trans activism.

Transwomen now have access to female sporting competitions, female prizes, female bursaries, female prisons, female rape counselling services as well as male ones. So marginalised…

Women are murdered on average every two-three days in the U.K. there has not been a murder of a transperson for the past two years. So unsafe…

Society will believe a man who says he’s a woman over a woman who says he is not.

Politicians will not answer this question because they’ve been captured entirely by Stonewall and the damage is taking a long time to unpick. Watch the Nolan Investigates podcasts on how SW influenced major institutions via the back door, it’s eye opening and depressing.

Women don’t have penises. A woman is an adult human female and redefining the term to include men has catastrophic impacts on women. Politicians need to wake up fast.

Ah, sorry. Disrupted your echo chamber.

But what if woman physically do have penises? now what? Is it a figment of their imagination? (I'm referring to trans men who have had reconstruction, just interested to know where you stand on that).

But it's not a penis, is it? It's a roll of skin that's been harvested from an arm or leg that comes with a whole load of complications. Have you actually looked into what they do?
And they haven't changed sex in any way, they are still adult human females.

I'm referring to trans men who have had reconstruction

Then they're not actual penises, they don't function as penises do.

Yes, I agree with these posts. Young women have not grappled with the realities of the limitations that will be imposed on them due to their physical female bodies. Motherhood is a shock in its absolute unignorable physicality and changes so much of how you engage the world and how it engages with you.

Like most people, I am completely happy with trans people wanting to to live their lives as the opposite gender on a day to day basis. I think the wicked problems are around sports, prisons and healthcare and that is where adult discussion and compromise is required all round. It certainly won’t influence the party I vote for - family poverty and insecure housing is my big ticket item.

It is not a penis. It is an artificial construction that involves flesh from either a forearm or thigh. It is essentially radical cosmetic surgery. No transman will be able to ejaculate sperm or have a spontaneous erection. To have an ‘erection’ they need to pump up the ‘penis’.

So I would call this a woman with radical cosmetic surgery. Adding a fake penis does not turn her into a man, just as chopping off a penis does not turn a man into a woman.

Nobody has ever actually said you can change sex.

The reason people don't want to answer your (not you personally) but 'questions' is because people aren't asking for an answer, they're asking for their next round , so they can be so terribly RIGHT.

We get it, these boards don't like trans as a concept, and aren't interested in anything except sex based rights. But at least say that and don't 'pretend' you don't understand.

The problem is people spend so much time trying to be awfully clever (JKR included) that they miss the point. I fully support LGBTQI+, I work in a field associated with it, I am very passionate about the rights of trans people.

I don't agree with mixed spaces or trans people competing in sports. I don't agree with biological men being in with biological women in prison

But I also don't start throwing out random statistics to try and make my point about women, because it's nto actually relevant. Trans is a huge concept and anyone who thinks that it will somehow go away if we say "BUT YOU CANT CHANGE SEX" loud enough is dreaming.

On here, the party line is pretending to be confused as to how a woman can possibly change sex and very graciously list your 2 percent of very generous acceptances you will allow trans people.

I'm not confused. Your sex is coded into every single cell of your body. Unless you have next-level alien tech to change that, that remains the case. www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780128035061000516#:~:text=Since%20sex%20chromosomes%20are%20expressed,totally%20independent%20of%20sex%20hormones.

Ah, but see im not silly enough to say that it's their gender they're changing, because then i'll get an essay on what gender is.

Not agreeing with/liking trans is fine, but don't pretend otherwise.

The problem is people spend so much time trying to be awfully clever (JKR included) that they miss the point. I fully support LGBTQI+, I work in a field associated with it, I am very passionate about the rights of trans people.

I don't agree with mixed spaces or trans people competing in sports. I don't agree with biological men being in with biological women in prison

@minutesturntohours you know that's the position of most women on here right? And that makes you a TERF. It is also basically what JKR said.

We get it, these boards don't like trans as a concept, and aren't interested in anything except sex based rights

Well when we're talking about sex specific spaces and sex divided sports, then that's kinda understandable, don't you think?

I don't have an issue with anyone living, dressing, presenting how they want to. I don't think many people on here do. But yes we run into trouble when we decide gender trumps sex in sex divided spaces. How could we not?