Part 6 keeping it civil - the Depp Heard jury is out

[ENoeuf]

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4556643-part-5-aibu-to-want-15-minutes-fame-depp-v-heard

hoping we can continue to discuss without unpleasantness - so far so good.

Actually I think lose the first two maybe win the third. She loses because she isn't worth £100m.

What are you talking about? Believing elements of what AH says does not mean you hold men in contempt. The two aren't mutually exclusive. I believe she was abused and don't hold men in contempt, I have a DH and a DS. I tend you judge cases individually on their own merit.

Yep, yet many posters claim it must be true.

If a woman lied to protect a man and was questioned in such a way there woul be outcry.

He says he's done in a text, but still actually stays with her for more than a year. Why

Abusive relationships are very complex , many people stay for way longer than they should.

It seems like nearly every woman that has a relationship with JD ends up broken hearted, WR, KM, VP…they’ve all said he was their great love and they cried for years etc. Maybe it was just so much harder for AH to cope with
I definitely feel he has issues, but I don’t believe her, just from the start, call it gut instinct, I don’t know…then as the case went further and more practical aspects of the case came about, it confirmed it further.

I think the only people it will set it back for are the #BelieveAllWomen, 'anyone who doesn't support Amber Heard is a misogynist' folks. They are very angry and upset and see this as a truthful victim being vilified for speaking up about abuse perperated by a monster. So their take away is that if a woman says she is abused, no one will believe her. I think for people with that perspective, it would make it harder to come forward.

I think that is a minority of people based on what I have seen online - most do see that Amber is lying and regardless of where they lie they have a more nuanced view of this than a woman spoke up and wasn't believed, and was attacked for speaking up about abuse.

From another angle, I have seen many people who are survivors finding this empowering because most don't get their moment in court to tell their side and to 'expose' the person who has convinced others that they are good and charming and the victim is the problem. I think some of the recordings especially have been validating for some people.

I also think it has opened up a discussion and a real life example of how women can be perpetrators and men can be victims and hopefully in the long run that leads to more anger management / perpetrator services for women and more victim services for men as both will help to reduce the abuse.

I think how MeToo responds will also shape the future role it has. If it takes a BelieveAllWomen tone - then I think many will turn against it.

Ok let me put it this way JDs texts about Ah were awful to the average person.

My DH, a survivor has said to me
"She's a delusional cunt, I fucking hate her, when she dies I will be glad and I will piss on her grave for what she did to me and the kids"

Horrible isn't it? Did she know he said that no.

JD handed over his phone so it's out there. How AH talks to JD she backs herself on that and everyone else is a liar.

I'd love to see her texts to her friends but hey ho, she failed to be completely open.

Evidence also shows she tried to leave him many times and went back too.

"He says he's done in a text, but still actually stays with her for more than a year. Why"

Christ alive, no disrespect but the ignorance and lack of understanding in this statement is so disappointing

Mummy

what evidence is that? She took a TRO out on him then turned up at his place trying to get him back then ended up being abusive again.

Honestly, no disrespect, but you are completely falling for her lies and bullshit.

Is there any reason it's perfectly OK to blame an abused man for not leaving but not a woman?

Where is the evidence?
There are countless audio of him trying to leave and her being hysterical at not wanting him to leave. That doesn't sound like evidence she tried to leave. She also sent him a birthday message 6/8 months I think it was after divorce! He didn't reply.

I'd bet all those supporting AH have not took the time to watch the links I recently posted. I wouldn't blame you, it'd be 2-8 hours out of your life outside of the televised trial.

Evidence also shows she tried to leave him many times and went back too.

I'll eat my hat if anyone can show me any evidence that she tried to leave him. She has abandonment issues, we have heard it with our own ears "it causes me great anxiety when you leave" "your going to give me a heart attack if you leave". He did eventually leave and look what happened next, she has made him pay in spades for it.

They were dreadful, but I would bet money Amber did similar.

I've probably researched this and watched as much of trial as u ! I have adhd so this has unfortunately became my hyper focus! I say unfortunately as I don't usually pick them nessasery!

No I am not. I don't believe absolutely everything she says. I can see why people find her as not likeable and can't deny she has definitely lied. I think JDs team actually successfully managed to disapprove her account of many of the key attacks she talks about. I also think she did leak things to IMZ. But I still think JD was abusive. As was she.

What evidence? She says in texts she feels like she's on a speeding train about to explode and wants to get off but can't. In audiotapes they talk about her looking for apartments and leaving him after one incident- something in Toronto I think. I think they both say they have thrown the word divorce around.

But don't think this is in the trial. In the audios She says she went to her own apartment a week prior and he massaged to say he was coming over to say goodbye but then came to hers and begged her to stay. His messages after Australia are saying sorry and he can understand her not wanting to talk to her and cut her loose etc. towards the end it seems they both tried to end it. Perhaps him more so though, he says repeatedly in one audio he's had enough, doesn't love her, doesn't want this and this isn't love and throws his ring off. It's a another thing that only they know.

I'm curious as to how u can dismiss some things she says as lies but others ur very sure she hasn't lied?
In the trial she tried to excuse one of the audios of them in car and her not letting him leave to see his daughter, she insists it she doesn't want him using and not about his daughter but its very clear its she not wanting him to leave her. It's so bizarre anyone can belive anything she says.

She did new and upset he'd blocked her.

On MN isn't that the usual advice? Block.

Now in the court room he's accused of not looking at her. He's grey rocking. He knows, he's endured 10 years of her shit. We haven't.

Where can I find JDs PAs testimony in the UK trial please? I would like to see it.

@mummyrocks1

I don't think either of them are likeable people in many ways.

I think the marriage was over before it was over. It doesn't seem that Johnny had come back to the penthouses after the birthday night - until his mother died and the final May 21st fight. Amber was having Franco and Elon for sleepovers without a care in the world in May. Again, not something you do when you are in the midst of leaving your abusive husband who you think might kill you - have him come home to other men in your bed?

I don't think they ever spent long stretches together. They both travelled and worked on location and Johnny often stayed at Sweetzer (much to Amber's dismay). It seems they spent more time apart than together and then when they were together they fought about it.

Nathan's?

"What evidence? She says in texts she feels like she's on a speeding train about to explode and wants to get off but can't"

Honestly mummy, I ask you to look at the last two links I posted. I think 1.5hours in total.

It's her. It's not him. She's projecting. I watched those links and I honestly say that man is a fucking saint to tolerate her for as long as he did. He did react sometimes, course he did.

Would I have been as patient? No. She's 100 worse than what I experienced myself. She's fucking intolerable to me now. A complete narcissistic, gaslighting bastard. Watch those 2 links I posted then imagine I've been there

I'm curious as to how u can dismiss some things she says as lies but others ur very sure she hasn't lied?
In the trial she tried to excuse one of the audios of them in car and her not letting him leave to see his daughter, she insists it she doesn't want him using and not about his daughter but its very clear its she not wanting him to leave her. It's so bizarre anyone can belive anything she says.

I guess the same reason people can still support him despite his lies.

The evidence overall I think shows he was abusive and so was she. Obviously this is only my opinion but imo
She has two witnesses who saw bruises on her consistent with the timings of the attacks. I believe them as valid witnesses. One is JDs oldest friend.
She would have to have been gone girl and got her friends in on a very complicated hoax as JD claims for it not to be true. Even his lawyer in the Uk case acknowledged this.
I don't believe she painted on bruises and gathered evidence over their relationship waiting to expose him.
I believe the security guards and PA and possibly doctors saw and heard more than they are claiming.
She sent texts about it right from the beginning I don't think she was lying about this all the way through for some gain to use later or for money.
His PA acknowledged in a text he kicked her.
JD acknowledged in multiple auto tapes it was abusive on both sides.
He admits to head butting her. I don't think this was an accident.
There is an audio tape where she is heard saying get off me just before he leaves.
The audiotapes show him verbally abusing her at a minimum. His emails and texts show he was jealous and controlling. He admits this in a audio tape.
She has pictures of bruising. I don't think they are painted on. The jury's out about if these were edited to make them look worse. I am sceptical about them but fundamentally they still show some bruises initially even if they were made to look worse. Unless you believe they were painted on. I don't.
Evidence suggests he had blackouts and became a monster. I think in those moments he was violent and intimidating and didn't know what he was doing.

Yes mid life. I couldn't remember his name.