Part 6 keeping it civil - the Depp Heard jury is out

[ENoeuf]

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4556643-part-5-aibu-to-want-15-minutes-fame-depp-v-heard

hoping we can continue to discuss without unpleasantness - so far so good.

You have missed my point entirely.

The difference between you and I is that you don't believe Amber lied and that she is a credible historian who spent 5 years being dragged by her hair, dragged nakes acrss glass, thrown against walls, smothered, punched and bashed repeatedly in the face, raped, sexually assaulted. You believe she spent 5 years living every day in fear of being killed that day by the monster who beat her to a pulp day in and day out. I don't.

The difference between you and me is that I support both male and female victims of abuse. I believe that women can be perpetrators. I listened to the recordings. Take the one where she punched him in the jaw. He had gone into the bathroom and closed the door to get away from her. She was banging on the door and he refused to open it so she kicked it in, the door hitting him in the head. He pushed the door away from him and it hit her bare toes. She then came into the bathroom and punched him in the face. Both agree this is what happened.

To you that is him being an abusive monster - how dare he walk away from her, how dare he not let her in when she wants to attack him, how dare he push a door away that was just kicked open hitting him in the head, how dare he be responsible for a touching a door scraping her toes. He deserves to be punched in the face for that. Poor Amber. You and I see these situations very differently.

I believe he and every other man also should be allowed to walk away and take space when an argument is escalating or they are being physically assaulted or having things thrown at them. I don't think they should be punched in the face after a door they are hidig behind gets kicked in by someoneone in anger. I think they have a right to not be injured by their partner. You don't. You listen to this scenario and think she was in the right - she was the victim and that she shoudl be alowed to kick open the door and punch him in the face if she wants to. You can't see why I disagree and I get that. Again, if your son was hiding in a bathroom and a woman was kicking the door down and then puched him in the face would you call him a monster? Would you tell him she is the victim and who does he think he is to try and hide from her? To get out here and take her beatings like a man? You expect that from Johnny so why not your own son?

Over and over in the recordings we hear her anger when he wants to take space or deescalate or not fight. She talks about needing and wanting to fight, she admits repeatedly to throwing things at him, to hitting him, to losing it, to physically attacking him, to not being able to control herself. She taunts, she mocks, she name calls....But she is the victim and he is a monster to you because he slammed a cupboard door - not even directed at her, and wrote nasty private texts to his friends.

@Aspiringmatriarch

And your efforts to personally attack me in an effort to make your point and to call me names like mosoynist and put downs isn't going to make me run and hide. You can insult me personally all you want. Call me every nasty name you can think of. None of it is going to change what I heard in all those recordings and read in all the documents and saw in all the exhibits.

@Aspiringmatriarch how is the evidence against Heard weaker?

Witness testimonies from police officers and body cam footage that discredits hers and her friends version of events

Impartial witnesses coming forward and testifying that they have seen her being abusive, that she has lied and that her sister is an unreliable witness

Recordings of her admitting to physical abuse, minimising her abuse, refusing to let JD escape abusive situations etc.

Clear evidence tampering

The TMZ incident

Lying under oath about donating money to charities

Lying about evidence

Refusing to submit devices so that her evidence can be verified

I think there are probably more examples, but to say that the evidence against Heard is weaker than the evidence presented against Depp during this trial, completely misrepresents the actual facts of this case.

I just heard the audio where Depp is cutting himself, hasn’t heard it before, worrying stuff.

Are there two different trials here because some of the arguments for AH are stretching to say the least.

Also lots who don't support AH do recognise that JD is far from perfect but he's certainly not hidden it, blamed it on others or falsified evidence.

Hasn't he? He claimed he's a southern gentleman at first. He says only AH referred to him as a monster and the drugs/drink don't send him into a rage or cause blackouts which obviously is not true. He tried to pass off a photo of a bruise taken on his honeymoon that AH caused only to find he had it beforehand. He has been more than likely been involved in a smear campaign against AH. He said he didn't try ti get her sacked and wasn't controlling only to be shown evidence to the contrary. Then he claimed some texts he had clearly sent were doctored after claiming he had not said it. He says he's never hit a women when clearly he has. They have both done the same.

I personally think he lied on the stand about what happened to his finger. She has lied too and done those things too but let's not pretend he has been whiter and than white at the trial either.

whats In his potty bag,

I thought so untill I heard his voice totally change when calling out to room service?

Suddenly this " broken man tragically trying to self harm" calls merrily out to room service not to disturb them and makes a fasiecous remark about sperm on a pillow.

@mummyrocks1 Do you know where I can find the photo that AHs lawyers were referring to? I have seen the one on the train but couldn't find the one where they said he had the same mark prior. I wanted to take a look to see for myself but can't face trawling through all the courts evidence. Where did you see it?

"I just heard the audio where Depp is cutting himself, hasn’t heard it before, worrying stuff."

I know, I can't believe AH recorded that and put it through - it's horrific. As a parent of a former self harmer - who is okay now thankfully - I found that very disturbing.

Mummy, I don't think he knows about his finger in honesty.

However her testimony is also absolutely balmy! Both scrabbling around in glass and her feet are fine...very straight marks...

All very bizarre.

Sozzler it's day 22 I've Just gone past it.
Basically a few days before you can clearly see he has a black eye and he looks extremely shifty trying to explain that away as the way the light fall's!

Of course he hasn't been whiter than white. If you listened to his testimony and he talked about his life and his addiction and his anger. It is all in the testimony. If you actually listen to the trial and use the available evidence, you will know what Johnny says he is and isn't. He talks about himself as being far from perfect.

Where the difference of opinion lies is in what Amber testifies to. That Johnny spent 5 years beating her to a pulp, raping her, throwing her around, dragging her across glass and that she feared every day for her life. What Johnny says is that he is not a rapist or violent man who beat her to within an inch of her life for years.

@ICanSmellSummerComing Thanks, when I watched it live streamed, they didn't actually show that picture, just the one of him on the train with a group of people. Where are you watching it? I'll take a look this evening.

About his photo trying to pass it off. Why should we belive heards side on not possibly doctoring that photo? When they have been shown to give false photos into evidence, what makes u sure that's not a photot they have edited to make it appear that way? I thought some texts they tried to claim was him and he said they wasn't were shown to be incoming which would have been received?

Legal bytes, Johnny Depp back on stand, with rotten. Born.

Showing the picture.

I think when I saw it it was a photo of him holding a child, and his eye appeared to maybe have an injury which could also be the shadow falling on his eye socket.

Of course he hasn't been whiter than white. If you listened to his testimony and he talked about his life and his addiction and his anger. It is all in the testimony. If you actually listen to the trial and use the available evidence, you will know what Johnny says he is and isn't. He talks about himself as being far from perfect.

But he tried to make out drugs and drink don't affect him that much and he doesn't go on benders and doesn't smash things up when he's high. He tried to minimise how much he drink before the Boston flight and that he doesn't have blackouts and periods of time he simply doesn't remember things. It is clear that this is not true. So how does he know what he did in those times? He doesn't. He can't account for what he did. So maybe he did do those things when he became a monster and he consciously or unconsciously doesn't know. In the audiotapes there are many references to him sounding very surprised when Amber says he did x and y. When his PA says he kicked her on the plane it is worded like he had no idea and he does he know he did these things.

Also- I think it is possible to believe there was some level of abuse without needing to believe all of what Amber says. Without thinking he is a rapist and beat her to a pulp everyday. I personally don't believe that, the rape, I am really not sure and kind of don't want to make a decision either way as it really is his word against hers and these things are hard to prove. I don't think he did beat her to a pulp everyday and I don't think she lived in fear of him everyday when he was sober and in his right mind. But I do think there was a level of abuse on both sides. Physically - yes, controlling- yes, verbally -yes. Sexually- not sure. So he should loose.

Its a shame the expert who would have testified on the images of injuries didn't get to take the stand. I think it would have been interesting to hear what they had to say about the authenticity of all the pictured injuries and whether they match up with the descriptions of how they allegedly happened.

The evidence in the court
Offical page

I'm trying to find depp holding child where he is supposed have black eye before honeymoon and its not on there which is interesting

Link to Daily Mail first on google

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10857285/amp/Johnny-Depp-grilled-pic-showing-mark-eye-day-Amber-Heard-punched-him.html

Midlife I agree...what is it that Amber is testify ing too.

I certainly believe he could get Very scary, I also definitely believe her when she says sometimes he was so off his trolly it's like he wasn't there.

I believe he probably did get her by the throat etc.

What I struggle to believe is this picture of being manically beaten up all the time....her back?

Tokyo? How would she even begin to cover up a massively bruised back? And if someone helped her why didn't they testify?

If there was abuse on both sides, and we don't know for sure if he was physically abusive or if this was reactive abuse, and if she has exaggerated his abusiveness, why do you think he should lose? She has made out to the whole world that he was some kind of abusive monster and she was the innocent victim. I think it has become clear that this just was not the case, so why do you think she should win after lying about him and completely trashing his reputation?

"So how does he know what he did in those times?"

The full voice recordings he has very good recollection of events and she doesn't contradict him or accuse him of anything

Recordings when they were still together obviously, but it's all been elaborated on since. You can't remember stuff that never happened and what AH claims happened when she never said a word on recordings. You'd think that would be her absolute opportunity to do so, wouldn't you?

"I didn't punch you, I hit you"

Where's the what about what you did when.....or that time when....? Nothing

All she's goes on and on about during their marriage is when she gets aggressive, he leaves and she doesn't like that one bit. (That is annoying for her in her mind To be fair and can feel invalidating but I suggest you don't throw pots and pans and punches if you want the other person to remain in the room)

Daily mail has 4 pictures together. I've screen shot bottom right and zoomed in.
It's very Very clear it's a massive shiner as he said.