Part 6 keeping it civil - the Depp Heard jury is out

[ENoeuf]

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4556643-part-5-aibu-to-want-15-minutes-fame-depp-v-heard

hoping we can continue to discuss without unpleasantness - so far so good.

I dont think JD cares about winning financially , he has moved on, may well be happier to have no money but rid of her for good and has got his side of the story out, AH has been shown to be a liar and an abuser but I imagine whatever the outcome the media wont brand her a husband beater.

I'm really sorry to hear that, it must feel really disempowering, frustrating and unfair to have to sit and listen to a supposed professional expert twist things about you during a court case. I had hoped it was more of an American thing and we were more balanced and fair here. Its worrying this is not the case.

Yes. That is true.which does make me disbelieve some of what she says about the extent of the attacks.

But I think she had less scope to influence her witnesses than JD.I personally think the security guards and DR K are not being completely truthful. I think they are covering for JD because they are being paid by him and they worry about his influence in getting more work in the industry. I very much think he built up a culture where he demanded loyalty and his mess was cleaned up with no consequences to himself. He expected things to be see nothing, say nothing and total privacy.

I can totally believe her when she says she was kicked on the plane and no one did anything or she was verbally abused and no one did anything.

I’m neither a heard or Depp fan, this case and the uk trial for me was the playing out of many aspects of the metoo movement when both participants were unreliable and flawed. A nightmare played out on a world stage that discredits those involved and has changed the outlook of “believe”. That is what has damaged future victims, that has given a voice for Mentoo. That has set back gains made. Regardless of the outcome of the trial.

But what about all the people who have no connection to depp, police officers, man who manged hoilday park? People who worked at their building? Tmz guy? And why would only people working for depp could he lying and rest not? It doesn't make sense. Also why if amber is telling true on some things lie about others? . If she was truely telling truth why would she lie about some stuff and cause herself to be unreliable?
If she was abused why was she not just sticking to the truth of the abuse? Why make it so much more? Why would she open her self up to that? I think it's because none of it happened.

JD has also been shown to be a lier and an abuser. It just seems to glossed over and doesn't apply to him.

Where has he?

Where has he been shown to be an abuser in the way that AH has alleged? I've seen zero credible evidence of this. I don't think it is fair to treat recordings where he doesn't deny things as evidence of his guilt. To me, it just sounds like she's gaslighting and bombarding him on most of the recordings I've heard, and like I said previously, there are several reasons why he may not challenge her on the things she is saying. He did deny her accusations on one recording (can't remember which one as I've listened to so many). He asked in disbelief if she really believes the things she is saying.

That's a good question that only she knows the answer to. I do believe she is certainly lying about the severity of some of the attacks. The evidence presented just doesn't make sense. So I think none of the witnesses you mentioned are lying and the police body cam certainly shows no damage to the apartment. These things either didn't happen or they didn't happen like she says. The abuse was more mutual and low level.

I think something happened on those days but it's been exaggerated. Why- I don't know. I can only think she felt like the truth wasn't enough and one lie lead to another until it snowballed or she wanted to cover up her side of the abuse. Perhaps she miscalculated that JD would take the sun to court so thought this would never be found out so could portray herself as the only victim. I don't know why she chose to break her NDA. I know she said she got legal advice about the article and if it broke this the lawyer who was brought as a witness testified it didn't. Either this was bad advice or she honestly thought no one would put it together she was talking about JD. I wonder if she regrets that decision. If she hadn't done that none of this would have happened.

She needed a story to match the dates and times of the photos so arranged that around these events.

Surely the more believable and logical reason for her lying is. She is lying about it all about and he never abused her or raped her. And she was angry he wouldn't agree to $50,000 a month and 3 of the penthouses and a range rover like she requested (even thou has repeatedly said she didnt want anything from divorce! 🙄) and gave him a few days to agree, nd when he didn't she made up allegations because she was angry and wanted to get back at him. And as she had abused him he was very beat down and she didn't belive he would make it public and call her out!

Sozzler - this has been put on the thread many times so I don't want to repeat it all yet again. I have already repeated it.

Unless she has put an epic hoax like JD proposes or she is gone girl I think some level of abuse certainly took place. Even his lawyer emails which were in evidence in the Uk trial say her evidence is substantial and unless she is home girl the evidence is there.

The photos were systematically sent to her friends and family over the whole of the relationship. I don't believe she started doctoring these from the beginning of the relationship when she simply had no reason to in order to save this up for this moment.
Here are a few simplified examples. As I said I don't want to go through it all.

There are numerous texts to friends and families about the situation being out of control. Saying that he hit her etc. they are very upsetting.

Some witnesses did see bruises on her and hair pulled out.

There are texts referencing the kick on the plane by his PA.

The audiotapes reference him saying physical violence on both sides. They show her saying she beat her, hit her and he doesn't deny it. Followed by text messages of him apologising and saying he will do better etc.

It's pretty clear he was a monster at times and I don't think he knew what he was doing at those times. He still doesn't know to this day so perhaps in his mind from his memory nothing happened.

I find it quite sad that when compelling evidence has emerged that JD was abused and that AH has lied multiple times, instead of showing sympathy and understanding toward Depp, he is still accused of things like mutual abuse and excuses are made for AH such as 'well yes she has lied, but there must still be some truth to her claims'. Please ask yourselves if you would be saying the same if the evidence were reversed. It is like some people just can't get their heads around the fact that a woman can be an abuser and a man the victim. No wonder female on male DA is so under reported.

Surely the more believable and logical reason for her lying is. She is lying about it all about and he never abused her or raped her. And she was angry he wouldn't agree to $50,000 a month and 3 of the penthouses and a range rover like she requested (even thou has repeatedly said she didnt want anything from divorce! 🙄) and gave him a few days to agree, nd when he didn't she made up allegations because she was angry and wanted to get back at him. And as she had abused him he was very beat down and she didn't belive he would make it public and call her out!

I don't think she made up allegations I think she revealed the evidence of what happened. If you listen to the audiotape of the discussions just before this it seems to me she had very bad legal advice she was pushed by her legal team into a situation and she wanted to file before he did. She was concerned about her reputation and knew that she would come out of the situation far worse than he would. She wanted to clear her name and expose the truth, just like he does now. At that time it was very one sided with her portrayed as the gold digger, the abusive one. She was just doing what JD is doing now. He isn't getting stick for that. People are saying it wasn't about money for him, he wanted to get his truth out. Maybe she did too.

I personally don't think money was her motivation but I do think the promise/pledge thing was a misguided attempt to try and shake off the gold digger label.

Nope. I think she was an abuser too and there is also evidence of that too. I would be totally saying the same thing if the evidence was the same and the roles were reversed.

They are both victims, abusers and they have both lied. jD seems to get a free pass for his lies and the things he has done because she has obviously exaggerated some of the claims. Whereas she doesn't. It's double standards. If you say she's a lier etc then you must say the same for him. It can't be one rule for one and one for the other.

The fact that he lies also doesn't mean some of his claims are true in the same way her lies don't either. Neither of them are completely innocent.

If she didn't doctored the photo why not give metadata to depps team like she was court order too? They wasn't given it. There is a court document showing this. Depps team did.
Also u make it sound like the 'epic hoax' sounds super unbelievable! When it sounds completely believable.

I think his drug and alcohol abuse was bad and that's what he refers to 'his monster'. He's apologising for the drugs and alcohol.
I'm sure I've see but want to make sure. The make up artist who said she covered bruises said she came to her after the stylist was hugging amber. She opened her door to see stylist hugging amber. The stylist testimony is she didn't see anything on her face. So the make up artist came after she couldn't have covered the bruises before the stylist came. There is so many inconsistencies.

I definitely think this is a thing. And I don't think if depp was a woman and amber was a man. It would be the same at all. I think people would assume that the woman is victim and didn't do anything. That's actually what makes me so infuriated about it.

I wonder if AH was really concerned about JD drug and alcohol use and the effect it was having on him she could have called for a doctor when he was apparently passed out instead of posting pics to her friends to embarrass him.

Why is this always trotted out? I absolutely believe men can be victims of DA. I feel sad for Depp that he's done serious damage to himself with his addictions. I believe AH did not behave well at times and she may have lied about leaking the video to TMZ.

There is compelling evidence Depp has lied.

• He testified in the UK trial that he did smash a phone in Australia and in this one he claims it didn't exist.
• He said he remembered everything about the plane ride, he wasn't drunk or high etc, and then his texts came out where he admits to being "an angry aggro Injun in a fucking blackout screaming obscenities".
• He said he never headbutted her, then the audio of him saying "I headbutted you in the fucking forehead, that doesn't break a nose", after which he changed his story to say he did it accidentally.
• He claimed texts from Stephen Deuters were fake, and then when that failed he changed his story to say they were just placating Amber over a 'gentle tap' she overreacted to.
• He's been slippery during his testimony about the 'monster' which he claims is terminology he never used about himself despite multiple texts and emails where he says things like "I locked up my monster" when they were going through a good patch. Claiming Amber was upset by her 'perception' that he was using drugs or drunk.

His own witness (their marriage counsellor) said that he hit first and eventually Amber started hitting back out of pride. She also said she saw Amber's bruises.

He's the one who wanted a televised trial and who is on record using vile language and saying Amber is begging for global humiliation.

Where is the sympathy and understanding for Amber dealing with an out of control addict twice her age? What about the audio where he berates her for 'pretending to be authoritative', where he calls her a cunt and a fat ass and a cheap stripper?

I don't think it is fair to treat recordings where he doesn't deny things as evidence of his guilt. To me, it just sounds like she's gaslighting and bombarding him on most of the recordings I've heard, and like I said previously, there are several reasons why he may not challenge her on the things she is saying. He did deny her accusations on one recording (can't remember which one as I've listened to so many). He asked in disbelief if she really believes the things she is saying.

If you applying that logic to the tapes, that's fine. But then where is the evidence she was abusive to him then? Like her he has a few photos of bruises. Why are his photos more valid than hers?

Like her, he has an audiotape where she admits to hitting him, like she has one of him admitting to head butting.

Like her, he has witnesses on his side saying she threw a bottle or they saw a mark on his nose. Just like she has evidence from witnesses saying she had bruises and hair pulled out.

Where is the difference? I am happy for a none denial of abuse to mean it isn't confirmation it happened but that needs to be the case for both sides then. Not when it just happens to JD. The same rule needs to apply to AH too.

If you look at the overall evidence. If taken at face value she has much more evidence than JD that she was abused.

It is like Rottenburge? the lawyer said. She has audio but that's not believed, she has photos of bruises but they have been doctored, she has witnesses but they are lying, she has texts but they are doctored. What more evidence does someone need to have of abuse before they are believed? It seems unless she have a video of him beating her up it's not true. It really worries me about other victims- both men and women, coming out about abuse when they are still disbelieved with so much evidence because they aren't the perfect victim. What more would you like her to present before she is believed?

He's the one who wanted a televised trial

Actually it was the judge who wanted it televised.

Why are his photos more valid than hers?

Maybe because he submitted his images to be forensically verified. She refused to do so, and what she did supply was unverifiable and/or showed evidence of tampering?

@mummyrocks1 the thing is, alot of the examples you are using there are actually classic signs that someone is being abused. Victims often do everything they can to placate their abuser, apologise for the abusers twisted version of events rather than challenge them on it. Abusers also twist the things that have happened to turn them around on the victim, e.g., an accidental headbutt becomes a deliberate one and is framed as the victim assaulting the abuser; its the victims fault that the abuser is physically violent I.e., blaming JD for leaving the situation and not staying in the fight etc. Most of the recordings i've listened to come across to me as her gaslighting, bombarding him and not letting him get much of a word in.

There are also reasons why a lot of AHs supposed evidence was inadmissible. In a lot of cases it couldn't be verified as authentic due to her refusing to hand her phone and ipad in.

No witness, apart from AHs sister Whitney (whose testimony was completely torn to shreds by Jennifer Howell and opposed by 2 other witnesses) has seen JD be physically abusive to AH, but multiple witnesses have testified to AH being physically abusive to JD, and others. None of JDs ex partners have come out and said he has been abusive, quite the contrary in several cases. The worst they could find was he threw a bottle (not at anyone) over 20 years ago. It is very unusual for a 58 year old abuser to mask their abusive nature all their life and throughout multiple relationships.

You'd think, after all that recording, AH would have something a bit more compelling on JD rather than simply non denial. The only person she appears to have outed as an abuser is herself. And if I'm completely honest, the TMZ guys testimony and the other witness testimony that she didn't have a bruise after JD left for Europe but one appeared for the TRO, along with those photos the day after in broad day light with what looks like very minimal makeup and no evidence of the bruise , make me think that she may have gone a bit 'gone girl'.

@mummyrocks1
It is like Rottenburge?

This isnt a social media wind up 😁 , but his name is legitimately J. Benjamin Rottenborn

Ok, but he's the one on record about globally humiliating her.

@mummyrocks1 There was literally evidence presented in court of her tampering with her photos. She tried to pass two versions of the same photo (taken at the same second, with identical lighting, positioning etc.) as two different images.