To be amazed how much women benefit financially from marriage

[Singleparent78]

I've been single most of my adult life, worked FT and built up a good career but despite this... I'm always struck how much better off women who are married are than me.

It's not just about the merging together of two salaries, but about how much easier financial life is when you have the benefit of a man's higher average income, giving many women a lifestyle they could never afford on their own salaries.

Consider:

• the many women I work with on low salaries or working part-time who are living much nicer lifestyles than I as they have a man significantly supplementing them.

• the married women I know at 45+ who have moved to part-time or stopped working as they have accrued significant savings with their dh but, critically, their dh is now a high earner who can pay for both of them.

• the girls from school who didn't go onto further education, got married soon out of school and haven't worked at all or a bit of p-time - they mostly live in nice houses and cars, have enjoyed nice holidays etc. There hasn't been much 'penalty' for not being independent or not having a career.

All in all these women, by way of marriage, seem to have an easier go than solo me slogging it out for 30 years working FT and trying my best to be independent.... like the teachers at school told us girls to be!

I understand: all the constraints on women to generate their own income esp the gender pay gap and the impact of childrearing; that the above scenarios don't apply to all couples; that I'm assuming a heterosexual set up; that women contribute within marriages in other way than bringing in income; and that assets in a marriage are shared as is any income that comes into a marriage. I know people might think I'm being anti-women for challenging women's choices or women's rights or just plain bitter...

Still, AIBU to wonder:.......Is it not depressing that the best or most common way for women to be financially comfortable or create wealth is still through marriage and the merging of assets with a man?

Yes, but my husband would never call himself the primary caregiver. I actually asked him this question after this thread because someone said I was wrong to say working dads with SAHMs don’t primarily raise their own kids - I asked him whether he thinks we raise the kids equally, or he thinks I primarily raise them. He said the latter, with the justification that because I am the SAHP and I do the day to day management of the domestic and childcare. Neither of us genuinely see why that should be a controversial statement as it just seems a statement of fact!

Yes, they are cheered on at hobbies and homework, but it’s not really the same as having your kids in your life all the time. And look at all the “jokes” like “why mummy drinks” and people saying they can’t wait to get a break, can’t wait to have their kids at school. I’m not saying people should never get a break, but those attitudes are so prevalent in society.

As I said, people have to work within the framework they live in. If he didn’t have to work, he’d love to be a full time dad. Both of us would love nothing more than staying at home raising our kids full time. Unfortunately, one of us has to work.

Why wouldn’t she homeschool them until they’re 18 ?

I’ll be home educating them until it’s no longer suitable to do so, the age of that will depend on the child. They may want to do college courses, they may want to do apprenticeships. They may decide they want to try school. I’ll be led by them, but will be doing it for as long as they’re happy with the set up

Yep, I said as much. They'd also either hire a cleaner or not hoover.

Why wouldn’t she homeschool them until they’re 18 ?

Huh? I didn't say she shouldn't!

I was genuinely interested in the poster's answer as she is very anti 'the system' and mentions nursery and school so I wondered if she was planning to put them into a system she fundamentally doesn't agree with.

You are not making any sense to me:

1. Women who have decided to be housewives or SAHP do work, a lot! It is not the 'easy option' as you call it. It is not paid with a wage, but it is hard work
2. Obviously, two people backing each other will reach further than just the one, wether they are married or not.
3. The only bit of reasoning I may infer (with a lot of hard work!) from your posts is that many women are sacrificing their careers for the option of caring for their families, either as SAHP or not actively going for promotions. But.... I think in the meantime this is something they have chosen because they wholeheartedly want to do so, then there is no problem. If you think it is due to society roles and because they think that is what is expected of them, then yes there is some more work to do. But, from my experience, I think the role of caring and staying with the family- for women, and the role of provider- for men, is quite the natural one. And in the meantime both parties are happy with the arragement, then there is no problem.

When mine was little, I would have happily been SAHP till school, and part time till secondary. But I had to go back to work as finances dictated so.

Were you two at the number 10 lockdown parties telling the cleaners to fuck off?

Your comments are snobby and offensive. There are numerous reasons why someone might work a minimum wage job and they have enough to contend with without the likes of you looking down on them.

If that comment was at me (I’m assuming so because if the foraging one), I assure you we don’t forage because we “don’t have the money” - we own our own home and I was independently wealthy before I married my husband. Not that any of that should matter, but feel free to carry on being sanctimonious (and incorrect while you do so)

@ForestFae has a view on what is best for children and has made her decisions based on that.
Of course she thinks this is better that's why she chose it, and in thinking that, yes she thinks other ways are not as good.

Presumably you all have views about what is best for children and have made your decisions in line with that too? If you could. And if you've had to make choices you didn't think were best for your children it was presumably because there wasn't a choice.

We all have views on what we think is best for children. That is a judgement. You can't make choices without it.

Seems to me @ForestFae is being particularly attacked here as her view is currently not mainstream and therefore feels threatening to others.

Thank you. Yes, that’s what I was trying to say earlier - we make the decision we think are best for our children. I obviously think the choice I chose is “the best” which is why I chose it, but I don’t think people who’ve come to different conclusions are bad people or that they shouldn’t have the choice. I’m not quite sure why that upsets people. There are plenty of people who’d look at my lifestyle, which is fairly alternative in several ways, and think it’s weird/eccentric/a choice they wouldn’t make - and that’s fine. Providing we aren’t harming anyone else or restricting another’s choice, it’s fine to think someone else’s choice isn’t the ideal one.

I quite agree that success should not only be defined in terms of exam results, and that things like mental health are very important. Most of the peer-reviewed studies I have seen suggest that maternal employment has no impact on mental health/happiness in later life (though I believe that the stats suggest that SAHMs themselves are at somewhat greater risk of mental health problems than WOHMs, but we are focusing on the children here. I can't comment on the impact for children with SEN, it isn't something that I have ever looked into.

As for compartmentalised kids with others of their own age, I can only speak for my dd who has always loved being in school with her peers. She gets plenty of opportunity to interact with people of all ages outside of that environment, but fair enough if you want to home educate. Clearly another area where what we want for our kids and their respective childhoods is quite different.

As for people having the choice to SAH with their kids if they can't afford to fund it independently, how would you propose that we pay for that? As a taxpayer, I'm more than happy to pay into the system to support people who are vulnerable and public services like the NHS, but I would not expect to pay in to subsidise other people's lifestyle choices unless I perceive that there would be a genuine benefit to society in doing that... and I am yet to be convinced of that, so I would prefer for my taxes to be spent on a cause that I consider to be more worthy of the investment.

What a particularly nasty post @ohdelay
Really really unpleasant stuff.

Seems to me @ForestFae is being particularly attacked here as her view is currently not mainstream and therefore feels threatening to others.

I think it's more because she said that working parents aren't 'raising their own children' tbh. Not a pleasant thing to say. Or true.

It was aimed at you as I found your ponderings on why people had children ridiculous. Not offensive, just funny.

Why? What’s unreasonable about asking why two people who could choose to have one parent SAH, at least while the child is young, but choose not to, why they had children? This isn’t someone who went for a meal out for a birthday, or had grandparents over to babysit while they took a night off. The scenario described was one where someone willingly and unnecessarily leaves their child in childcare from the minimum age, full time. I don’t think it’s odd to question why.

I don't agree with funding home education either. The state provides various services such as schools and the NHS. If you don't want to use them fine, but then you fund yourself.

Of course she thinks this is better that's why she chose it, and in thinking that, yes she thinks other ways are not as good.

You see, that's not how I see it. I have made choices about what's best for me and my family but I would not presume that other people's choices for their families are therefore "not as good". I would presume that they were making their choices in a different set of circumstances from my own, and that they were doing the best that they possibly could for their children.

Believing that my choice is right for me doesn't mean that different choices being somehow inferior. They're just different.

If I say that balancing motherhood with my career was the best thing for my family, that's just stating my opinion on my own personal situation. If I start decrying other people's choices as odd or unnatural, or suggesting that they somehow don't love their kids as much as I do, then that becomes offensive.

The two approaches are quite different.

OK, I will answer your question why (though I think it's pretty obvious tbh).

They choose not to because they just don't think having a SAHP is important. They don't think it's better for their child, and neither of them wants to be a SAHP.

What’s unreasonable about asking why two people who could choose to have one parent SAH, at least while the child is young, but choose not to, why they had children?

Presumably because they hope the child will live a long and happy life, so they plan on deeply loving and supporting them (in the myriad other ways outside possible without being a SAHM) for the duration of it rather than making their decision about whether or not to have kids based on whether or not they are prepared to give up work once the baby is born.

You've literally said you don't understand why someone who wants to keep working should have a baby and implied heavily that it's not in the child's best interest, but don't understand what's unreasonable about that? And don't want to be offensive? Ok then.

I think it's great you've met someone who is totally aligned with you when it comes to parenting. I respect your right to parent the way you want. I respect your right to not work.

Yet it doesn't feel you have respect for parents making different decisions to you and after your posts in this thread it's disingenuous of you to suggest you do!

Indeed. Or because she said that it was 'pointless' to have children if you weren't going to stay at home. Or because she compared it to pet neglect. Or because she called it 'unnatural', which is a deeply loaded and pejorative word. Or hinted that working outside the home damaged your children's mental health.

And then blinked and said she couldn't understand why anyone would take offense at her comments.

(Ffs, I don't care if an independently-wealthy anti-capitalist hobby-artist wants to go foraging in the woods with her children and mother and teach them at home until they're in their teens. It sounds delightful! It really does. Not being snarky. It's just to then have that same person turn around and say passive-aggressively nasty things about people who make other choices in the guise of 'critiquing society' is, at its core, boring.)

Exactly this. Well said.

I think more research would be needed before we can make solid conclusions. Anecdotally, with my eldest child I took up a university course, which meant I “worked” part time, with my younger two I was a SAHM from their birth. The younger two are more confident and happier children, and also better at communication than he was at the same age - DS1 really struggled with his speech. Is that down to me being a SAHM, me being more experienced with subsequent children than my first, or just them being different kids? Who knows. But I know my younger two are thriving with the set up and DS1 is now calmer and more settled.

I’m sure some kids do love it. I think school and nursery probably is okay for some kids (although I still think full time is very long, and that we send kids to formal schooling too early in the UK). I actually think with education, different kids benefit from different approaches - I’d be less critical of nurseries and schools if the staffing ratios were higher, classes were smaller and in the case of schools, they had more funding. I’d also like to see more flexibility with schools and flexi schooling options, as I think many kids and parents would benefit from a combination of formal and joke education, but that’s a bit off topic I suppose.

This comes down to I believe we should all be living radically different lives. I’d want a whole societal reshuffle with an emphasis on locally grown food and communal work together, so it’s an entirely different set up to what we currently have. With what we have though, to mention a tangible benefit - we currently have an ageing population, which is a massive problem. One of the reasons women are having less kids today is the costs of doing so, whether in childcare or being unable to afford their bills if they stay home. So an immediate tangible benefit may be that a higher state maternity allowance for 24 months (which is the length of time that breastfeeding is recommended for) may help reverse this trend.

@ForestFae

I genuinely find it baffling you have the stance you do re parents working, considering you were independently wealthy before (presumably either a well paid job or generational wealth) and now your family lives on your husbands wage as he has a good job in a job that isn't 'meaningful' even though you say you think people should only have meaningful jobs.

It does rather feel that you've benefitted from the capitalist society you disagree with doesn't it?

I can respect someone’s choice and right to do so while not agreeing with it on a personal level. I strongly believe in peoples freedom to choose their own lives, and protecting others civil liberties. While I might find something distasteful or dislike it, I absolutely support people’s rights to do it (providing it isn’t unreasonable harming others). I fully support peoples right to make choices I wouldn’t. That doesn’t mean I can’t express that I think it’s not the best choice.

I will take this at face value, even though I don't believe this is a genuine question and think you have been sniping throughout this thread.
I personally will aspire to give my child a better life than I had (my life was pretty good). In order to do that I have to work along with my child's father. It is that simple. I understand other people don't think the same as me, you can't grasp this very simple concept for some reason. Everyone makes choices for their own family, when the judgements start flying they go both ways.