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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be fed-up of non-drivers seeking lifts?

607 replies

GoldfinchTart · 28/05/2022 12:03

Disclaimer: this post is not about people who for whatever reason — sight problems, epilepsy, disability, poverty etc — cannot drive. It's about people who could learn to drive but don't want to.

Earlier this week I had a knock at the door and it was a couple asking if I could lend them some gardening equipment. They're in the process of buying a property a few doors along from me. It's a probate sale and it's taking ages, so they'd come down (with the vendors' permission) to start tidying up the garden which has become quite overgrown. They wanted a rake and a spade and loppers 'Because it's difficult to carry a rake on the train'. I invited them in and made them tea while I went to unlock the shed and find the tools. Turns out neither of them drive. He has a licence but found driving stressful and she prefers to be driven.

Our houses are a half-mile walk to a bus stop which isn't much fun when it's pouring with rain. I raised an eyebrow and asked if they cycle? Electric bikes are getting popular around here. We're 11 hilly miles from the nearest major town for shopping and transport links. No, they don't cycle. Long silence. I said that was a pity: taxis were very expensive because they had to come out from the town. She said that they have very nice neighbours where they currently live and they help out with lifts. Apparently the nice neighbours had run these two to the station that morning and would pick them up on their return. And then she asked 'I don't suppose you'd be going into town around 4pm, would you?' Fortunately I had a full afternoon's zoom meeting booked and showed them my diary. My partner and I try to be good neighbours but surely this was a very large red flag?

Next week I'm going to a book festival. I'm going in the camper van my partner and I share. A friend who doesn't drive is coming by train and will be travelling with a tent and camping gear. We arranged that I would be at Hereford station to pick her and her gear up at a certain time. It was planned to give us time to drive to the festival campsite and then for me to go and attend one of the events, which I've booked and paid for in advance. Today she's contacted me to say that she can't get anyone to give her a lift to the station at her end in order to catch the train required. Someone can give her a lift later to the station later in the morning, so she'll be arriving in Hereford two hours later than planned. She still expects me to pick her up from Hereford. I've told her she'll have to catch the bus from Hereford and she's responded that she has far too much gear to get on a bus. She fancies herself as a bit of a green crusader, always knocking me and my partner for having two vehicles and yet she's totally dependent on drivers to get her around.

In August my 28-year-old nephew and his girlfriend are coming to stay. They hope to go walking in the area and to visit several out-of-the-way places. They live in London and don't drive. It's become clear while we've been making arrangements that if they're to do half of what they've planned, I'll need to ferry them around almost every day. They're my relatives, they're here for a week and I'll do it without grumbling. But they'd have far more freedom and independence if they learned to drive and could hire a car for a week.

It strikes me that driving is one of those life skills that all eligible adults should be capable of, even if they choose not to own a car. AIBU?

OP posts:
WomanStanleyWoman2 · 29/05/2022 22:28

It's a life skill and not having a licence disadvantages you in not dissimilar ways to being unable to read or being scared of computers.

I can’t believe anyone is this stupid. Even jobs where you don’t have to be able to read (e.g. labouring) usually require you to complete an application form - often online, meaning you need computer skills.

Driving? Unless you need to do it for the job, it’s irrelevant. I earn £50k a year, which I think is pretty decent - and none of that money goes on a car I don’t need.

Yes, I’ve had to turn down jobs based on industrial estates in the arse end of nowhere. But the company has lost out
just as much as I have.

MissConductUS · 29/05/2022 22:33

SundayTeatime · 29/05/2022 20:55

I don’t think school budgets have capacity for driving lessons for every pupil.

Our high school negotiated a group rate with a local driving school. I think it was $300 per student to take the lessons. This was four years ago.

fflolittlelizbet · 29/05/2022 23:29

I don't drive because I can't afford to take lessons. I never expect lifts and plan all my days and ferrying kids back and forward to groups via walking or bus, keeps me busy. I'll definitely learn one day, just not right now.

SundayTeatime · 29/05/2022 23:34

MissConductUS · 29/05/2022 22:33

Our high school negotiated a group rate with a local driving school. I think it was $300 per student to take the lessons. This was four years ago.

But driving lessons in the UK where I am are £35 an hour. You can’t learn to drive from scratch in just ten hours, even with a discount. And the UK driving test is significantly harder than the US one. And there’s no space in the curriculum to fit it in. What subject would have to go? It would have to be mandated by the government, and that wouldn’t happen- because driving is so environmentally damaging, and expensive. And who would teach the lessons?

NeverDropYourMooncup · 30/05/2022 00:20

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 29/05/2022 22:28

It's a life skill and not having a licence disadvantages you in not dissimilar ways to being unable to read or being scared of computers.

I can’t believe anyone is this stupid. Even jobs where you don’t have to be able to read (e.g. labouring) usually require you to complete an application form - often online, meaning you need computer skills.

Driving? Unless you need to do it for the job, it’s irrelevant. I earn £50k a year, which I think is pretty decent - and none of that money goes on a car I don’t need.

Yes, I’ve had to turn down jobs based on industrial estates in the arse end of nowhere. But the company has lost out
just as much as I have.

Can't get the Health and Safety Certificate to get a labouring job without being able to read well enough to get through the computer tests. Can't pass a driving test without being able to read well enough to get through the theory test. Both - obviously, as the clues are in the former sentences - require the ability to use computers.

Don't need to drive to get on a bus/walk to work where you are reading all the time and using computers, though.

It's as though that poster were talking nonsense...

WhackusBonkus · 30/05/2022 00:39

Yeah.. I agree with the OP. People (not including the exceptions mentioned) should at least try to do their best to get themselves through a driving test. Otherwise they will end up having to rely on others forever even if only occasionally. Not everyone needs to own their own car but being able to drive is a reasonable expectation for *most adults I feel. I’d be irritated AF if DH didn’t drive and it all fell to me. Bugger that

echt · 30/05/2022 01:03

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 29/05/2022 22:28

It's a life skill and not having a licence disadvantages you in not dissimilar ways to being unable to read or being scared of computers.

I can’t believe anyone is this stupid. Even jobs where you don’t have to be able to read (e.g. labouring) usually require you to complete an application form - often online, meaning you need computer skills.

Driving? Unless you need to do it for the job, it’s irrelevant. I earn £50k a year, which I think is pretty decent - and none of that money goes on a car I don’t need.

Yes, I’ve had to turn down jobs based on industrial estates in the arse end of nowhere. But the company has lost out
just as much as I have.

It's not stupid, it's just a different opinion than yours. The poster said reading and driving were not dissimilar which is not the same as "the same", just bearing comparison.

The fact that you turned down jobs needing driving doesn't disprove the general point.

Augustmummy · 30/05/2022 01:19

Avoid the new neighbours like the plague. Run. Don't walk...

DdraigGoch · 30/05/2022 01:34

I've told her she'll have to catch the bus from Hereford and she's responded that she has far too much gear to get on a bus. She fancies herself as a bit of a green crusader, always knocking me and my partner for having two vehicles and yet she's totally dependent on drivers to get her around.

I once cycled twice that distance with camping gear. Up hills too, not like pooling along at river level to Hay-on-Wye. Your relatives need to bring (or hire) bicycles too.

I have a full licence but don't own a car. I don't expect to be ferried around, I'm perfectly independent.

Maverickess · 30/05/2022 01:57

I can't drive and I've thrown a few thousand at it trying to get there and I'm just not going to keep throwing time and money at something that isn't happening. I know that it's limiting in some ways, but I also accept that as just being my life.

It's not the driving that is the essential life skill, it's the ability to arrange your life independently that is and you can, actually, do that without a driving license as much as with.

I live somewhere with decent transport links, which isn't a city, I have never been unemployed and always done shift work, I've been on holiday, I live in the countryside (actually in a national park) I have raised a child who is going to university this year on my own, I can get stuff delivered, I can get to shops, I am going to the cinema tomorrow, I've ridden horses all my life as has my child, I can get my dog to the vets. I have arranged my life around my needs, I can't live in a place with poor public transport - so I don't, in the same way I can't afford to live in a 10 bed mansion - so I don't. As much as you can choose to live in the arse end of nowhere with a bus once a century, I can choose not to. I'm limited by more than just not being able to drive in the same way everyone is limited by their circumstances.

Some drivers are completely reliant on their cars, they don't go anywhere if the car can't take them because they aren't actually independent people, they rely on their cars and ability to drive completely and if that is taken away then they become stuck. These types are the absolute worst at being pushy to non drivers about lifts because they assume that the non driver can't do anything they can't do, so they can't possibly get themselves about independently without a car because the driver can't do that.
I may be limited through not driving, but no more than someone who is totally reliant on their car, probably less so because I don't just rely on one mode of transport and give up if it's out of action for any reason. And you're seen as ungrateful or ironically a cheeky fucker, should you turn down a lift foisted on you by such a person, that wasn't asked for, needed or wanted.

I dislike the non driving cheeky fuckers as much as I dislike the driving cheeky fuckers - they're still cheeky fuckers and they'll take the piss out of you in any way they can. The lack of a driving licence doesn't automatically make you a cheeky fucker and gaining one doesn't automatically mean you're not one.

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 30/05/2022 02:26

echt · 30/05/2022 01:03

It's not stupid, it's just a different opinion than yours. The poster said reading and driving were not dissimilar which is not the same as "the same", just bearing comparison.

The fact that you turned down jobs needing driving doesn't disprove the general point.

Some people liking high heels and some preferring flats is a difference in opinion. Comparing the lack of a driving licence to illiteracy is stupid.

crosstunink · 30/05/2022 02:35

I've zero interest in learning to drive or owning a car. I live in a city and I can't remember the last time I was in a car. We walk everywhere or take the train. Yes, with DC in tow.

Bluesparkled · 30/05/2022 03:17

Another thread describing the many wonders of driving and the far better life we could have if we didn’t have “ sight problems, epilepsy, disability, poverty etc”. Thanks for that.

echt · 30/05/2022 03:18

Comparing the lack of a driving licence to illiteracy is stupid

No it isn't. They are both significant life skills and so bear a degree of comparison. That's why the poster said "not dissimilar".

NewSlang · 30/05/2022 05:51

I've been on both sides of the fence, as a non-driver for most of my adult life and now (for the past couple of years) as a driver. My observations are that although up until a couple of years ago I'd claim that I was perfectly able to live my life without driving, it's like so many things in life: you really don't know what you're missing out on until you do it.

I accepted the constraints of non-driving life, carrying shopping on the bus, only living in places with decent public transport. Could I live like that again? Of course, but I would never ever want to. I love having the option of driving. I love that I can arrive and leave when I want to, not when the bus or train arrives. I love that I can cut my commute time in half by driving, and I love that I can offer help to others when they need it by picking them up or picking up things for them. I love the spontaneity that's possible with driving - if I want to make multiple stops along the way somewhere I can, and I can go along the exact route I choose to. I can 'drop in' to friends and family, just because I'm passing by. I appreciate all of these things so much and really didn't realise how restrictive my non-driving life was until I experienced it, and this was with living in towns and cities with decent public transport!

I understand not everyone can drive and I understand all too well that it's difficult and expensive - this was why I only got my license so late in life. I gave up many times before getting there and I don't always love driving. But I'm so glad I didn't give up. You aren't a lesser adult because you can't drive, but it might just expand your life in ways you haven't even imagined. It certainly did mine.

Noseylittlemoo · 30/05/2022 07:03

When I was growing up (London suburbs) my mum didn't drive so I was used to walking to school, hobbies etc and taking the bus on longer journeys. My Dad drove so he would do all the driving at weekends , holidays etc. I learnt to drive when I was 20 and enjoyed the independence it gave me - even tho it wasn't a skill I used daily as living in London I commuted to work by tube.
I've met a few CFs - a particular flat mate always used to be asking for lifts and always saying how lucky I was that I could drive . It didn't seem to occur to her that it cost me a lot of time and money to learn and then run a car. She never offered any petrol money or returned the favour in any other way. I would offer a lift if I was going to the supermarket for example to save having to carry heavy items . But when I moved out into my own flat she asked me if I would still take her to the supermarket! I said no! She was early 40s and quite fit and there was a small supermarket about 10 min walk away.

rookiemere · 30/05/2022 07:11

Augustmummy · 30/05/2022 01:19

Avoid the new neighbours like the plague. Run. Don't walk...

Or jump into your car and drive away every time you see them Grin

0utwitted · 30/05/2022 07:35

echt · 30/05/2022 03:18

Comparing the lack of a driving licence to illiteracy is stupid

No it isn't. They are both significant life skills and so bear a degree of comparison. That's why the poster said "not dissimilar".

Wow. Seriously
People survived without driving for centuries and before publicc transport was so good.

There should be fewer cars on the road not more.

andym915 · 30/05/2022 07:37

With the friend you were meeting at Hereford Station, I would be saying " O what a shame I wont be able to help you as you know I have to be in xxxx so cant make it any later than planned perhaps someone else may be able to help you. With the relative I would also be inclined to help one or two days but not every day unless they have already asked and I have said I would/could to just expect you to drop everything for them , They are the one being unreasonable.

andym915 · 30/05/2022 07:41

Also next time you see them I would have prepared a list of the nearest supermarkets that do home delivery's.

ManyBooksLittleTime · 30/05/2022 07:43

I earn an excellent salary. My job is 100 per cent about READING. I don't drive. I don't rely on others. Ever.

There are lots of us out there that can make our own way in life without a car and have also given/ give our own kids fantastic trips accessed by public transport.

There is no correlation between reading and driving except in the minds of thick people.

GoldenOmber · 30/05/2022 07:57

What is the “but it’s hard to get jobs if you don’t drive” point meant to achieve? Working-age people who don’t drive either

can’t learn to drive, in which case harping on them that they’ll never be a large animal vet now is pointless;
— could learn but don’t want to, in which case they’re presumably fine with the jobs available to them.

Either way, what is to be achieved by repeating “but it’s a LIFE SKILL” at them? Either their life isn’t lacking because of this in a way that bothers them, or it is but they can’t change that.

The life skill that seems most lacking on MN is the ability to understand that people are different, and not everyone is or wants to be the same as you.

Frazzledmummy123 · 30/05/2022 07:59

Reading some opinions about non-drivers on this thread is sobering. I had no idea people this narrow minded and pig-ignorant existed!

Best of it is, many of those claiming we are missing life skills and aren't fully functioning people probably wouldn't be able to function if their car was off the road! I know drivers who have never taken public transport, and don't even know where their local bus stop or train station is. That isn't very independent or 'functioning'....

toogoodforthisworld · 30/05/2022 08:09

My stepdaughter has had a car for 2 years or so but is still learning to drive. In the meantime she asks for lifts ALL the time.
After taking her out for a practice drive I saw she was on 'reserve' fuel. I said - you need to put some petrol in it. She replied. God I only filled it up with 10 pounds a few days ago... she has literally no idea how expensive it is to drive LOL
Our car is shocking with fuel - It costs me 3 pounds to take her to work and then drive back.. I've started saying no - a taxi only costs her 6 pounds and she can take the bus (just not at a -for her - convenient time - means a lot of waiting around).
My youngest daughter (older than my step daughter) said you have to have your own car before you realise the value of a lift ....LOL

Stirling2701 · 30/05/2022 08:11

@Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky I am exactly the same as you. I passed my driving test (by a sheer fluke!) at the third attempt, but haven't driven for years. I absolutely hated it and was a nervous wreck. I consider that I was a danger on the road. I never ask anyone (except for DH very occasionally) for a lift, but prefer to use public transport or to walk.