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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be fed-up of non-drivers seeking lifts?

607 replies

GoldfinchTart · 28/05/2022 12:03

Disclaimer: this post is not about people who for whatever reason — sight problems, epilepsy, disability, poverty etc — cannot drive. It's about people who could learn to drive but don't want to.

Earlier this week I had a knock at the door and it was a couple asking if I could lend them some gardening equipment. They're in the process of buying a property a few doors along from me. It's a probate sale and it's taking ages, so they'd come down (with the vendors' permission) to start tidying up the garden which has become quite overgrown. They wanted a rake and a spade and loppers 'Because it's difficult to carry a rake on the train'. I invited them in and made them tea while I went to unlock the shed and find the tools. Turns out neither of them drive. He has a licence but found driving stressful and she prefers to be driven.

Our houses are a half-mile walk to a bus stop which isn't much fun when it's pouring with rain. I raised an eyebrow and asked if they cycle? Electric bikes are getting popular around here. We're 11 hilly miles from the nearest major town for shopping and transport links. No, they don't cycle. Long silence. I said that was a pity: taxis were very expensive because they had to come out from the town. She said that they have very nice neighbours where they currently live and they help out with lifts. Apparently the nice neighbours had run these two to the station that morning and would pick them up on their return. And then she asked 'I don't suppose you'd be going into town around 4pm, would you?' Fortunately I had a full afternoon's zoom meeting booked and showed them my diary. My partner and I try to be good neighbours but surely this was a very large red flag?

Next week I'm going to a book festival. I'm going in the camper van my partner and I share. A friend who doesn't drive is coming by train and will be travelling with a tent and camping gear. We arranged that I would be at Hereford station to pick her and her gear up at a certain time. It was planned to give us time to drive to the festival campsite and then for me to go and attend one of the events, which I've booked and paid for in advance. Today she's contacted me to say that she can't get anyone to give her a lift to the station at her end in order to catch the train required. Someone can give her a lift later to the station later in the morning, so she'll be arriving in Hereford two hours later than planned. She still expects me to pick her up from Hereford. I've told her she'll have to catch the bus from Hereford and she's responded that she has far too much gear to get on a bus. She fancies herself as a bit of a green crusader, always knocking me and my partner for having two vehicles and yet she's totally dependent on drivers to get her around.

In August my 28-year-old nephew and his girlfriend are coming to stay. They hope to go walking in the area and to visit several out-of-the-way places. They live in London and don't drive. It's become clear while we've been making arrangements that if they're to do half of what they've planned, I'll need to ferry them around almost every day. They're my relatives, they're here for a week and I'll do it without grumbling. But they'd have far more freedom and independence if they learned to drive and could hire a car for a week.

It strikes me that driving is one of those life skills that all eligible adults should be capable of, even if they choose not to own a car. AIBU?

OP posts:
user3199 · 29/05/2022 11:55

As it's the young people who struggle academically who end up going into trades
**
This is a massive generalisation. Plenty of people make an active choice to go into a trade - it's not a second choice because they couldn't go to uni/failed school exams etc.

Robinni · 29/05/2022 12:04

GoldfinchTart · 29/05/2022 10:59

You don't think there'd be queues of kids wanting to use them during breaks? You don't think that kids who are struggling academically and failing to learn French or Spanish might benefit from learning to drive at school? We're all relying increasingly on deliveries. There's a shortage of drivers at every level from HGV to UPS and Amazon. You don't think that allowing the most deprived kids the chance to learn to drive at school might make them more employable and give them more choices in life?

To be clear here a simulator has limited ability to teach someone to drive.

They are still going to have to pay several hundred for lessons. Plus a few grand for insurance and tax. Plus a few grand for a car. Plus a few hundred (at this rate) per month to run the car!

Where are these impoverished kids going to get this £5,000 to do this.

By the way to become an HGV driver it is a further £1,000-2000 for specialised training.

Cloud cuckoo land.

Robinni · 29/05/2022 12:13

Also this generalisation @GoldfinchTart that all the children who “fail” at school go into a trade……

oh my word!!

Some actively wish to go into a trade because it is what they would love to do, or to become part of the family business/set up their own business…

Honestly I don’t know why you are driving this (pun unintended) thread in the direction of driving being almost mandatory…..

This is not the way things are going to go, the gov will probably have to start schemes shortly to incentivise NOT driving.

SundayTeatime · 29/05/2022 12:15

They are still going to have to pay several hundred for lessons.
It cost one of my DDs nearly 2,000 in lessons alone, including the test, and she passed first time. There’s no way to afford insurance and an actual car and parking, MOT etc.

Blaggertyjibbet · 29/05/2022 12:21

GoldenOmber · 29/05/2022 09:42

It would cost an awful lot to have free driving lessons in schools. And take time out of the school day. Is that really the best use of the education budget?

Plus, the cheeky garden-tools-borrowing neighbours do have at least one license between them, so seems being able to drive has not stopped them being scroungers…

Driver’s Education is offered as a class in most secondary schools in the US. You can take the class and even do the driver’s test as a part of school as soon as you are old enough to get a learner’s permit.

Granted, the US is a much more car-dependent society, but it is something they have prioritized even in an underfunded public education system.

ddl1 · 29/05/2022 12:27

YANBU to think that your new neighbours are real CFs. Cadging lifts and other favours off you before you even know each other. Bloody hell. And if they can't/ won't drive; find it intolerable to walk half a mile in the rain; and can't/ won't pay for taxis, then perhaps they should have chosen another place to live.

However, YABU to think that everyone should be able to drive, and to judge people harshly if they can't or choose not to.. I know you make an exception for people with disabilities or health issues, but not all such issues are visible (and for that matter not all visible disabilities prevent you from driving); and not everyone wishes to give their entire health history to all and sundry. And some people have no diagnosable disability, but have slow reaction times that can make driving more dangerous; this is especially true of many people who did drive, but gave it up as they got older. If people are uncertain and nervous on the road, then it is generally better if they don't drive - for the sake of others' safety as well as their own.

As regards your relatives, maybe it's not so much an issue of their not driving, but of their making unrealistic plans- perhaps because they're used to the ready availability of public transport. Maybe you could try to persuade them to reduce their plans slightly?

Kanaloa · 29/05/2022 12:30

GoldfinchTart · 29/05/2022 09:16

No, I wasn't enormously privileged. I came from a very ordinary aspirational working class family where we didn't own a car until I was 12 or 13. First my dad learned to drive, then my mum in her 40s. We had a really ancient car that my dad maintained at home and couldn't go above 40mph. My schoolfriends laughed at, but it got us to places we would never otherwise have been able to visit and opened my world up. .

I've never earned more than the national average salary (and most of the time not that). Several of my jobs have required me to be able to drive (including jobs in Australia and New Zealand) and one of those jobs here in the UK led to bigger and better things.

Rather than driving being a privilege I want it to be a skill that everyone has, something taught in schools. Surely with simulators every student could learn all the basics and reduce the number of actual paid lessons they need? In this area even hard-up families prioritise getting their youngsters driving, because without it their children's options are very severely limited. Driving and typing. Two skills that in my book are more important than a lot of stuff on the curriculum.

So everyone in the world should learn to drive so you never have to say no to anybody ever? You sound utterly small minded and totally pretentious. Not all of us are desperate to float on the sea under the Milky Way. Not all of us can afford it. Focus on your life and stop being so invested in whether other people can drive or not. I can drive. I never spare a thought for wanting everyone else to be able to. Personally I think a far more important skill than driving is being able to speak your mind. I can’t abide by whingey wet lettuce adults who can’t even say no when they’re being made a mug out of.

user75 · 29/05/2022 12:30

I think that people who do not drive massively under estimate the costs. They should get a taxi. It's so entitled and rude.

theobligatorynamechange · 29/05/2022 12:42

user75 · 29/05/2022 12:30

I think that people who do not drive massively under estimate the costs. They should get a taxi. It's so entitled and rude.

Well, those of us who aren't self-entitled CFers generally do.

Even if I could drive, it's still cheaper for me to take taxis every so often than to run a car full-time. I'm happy with my choices in life.

Mary46 · 29/05/2022 12:50

I do agree its big outlay driving lessons and insurance. My son isnt on a direct bus to his job. Thankfully he drives but agree its big money starting out.

Robinni · 29/05/2022 13:02

SundayTeatime · 29/05/2022 12:15

They are still going to have to pay several hundred for lessons.
It cost one of my DDs nearly 2,000 in lessons alone, including the test, and she passed first time. There’s no way to afford insurance and an actual car and parking, MOT etc.

Yes I was being conservative.

That reminds me - if you live in an urban area often you are paying circa £1500+ for a parking permit as well.

BraveryBot9to5 · 29/05/2022 13:25

Itsnotonlyrainbows · 28/05/2022 17:58

Saying its a life skill is irritating

I agree! To me, you just get around not driving by living near bus routes, or being prepared to walk

The 4,000 euro I was quoted for insurance as a driver with no driving history would equate to taxi trips to the value of about 75 euro per week.

I also feel OK in my choice not to put another car on the road. I cannot believe that while there are documentaries being aired about the state of the planet some people are saying (shaming) ''its a life skill''. No figuring out how to make your own life run is the skill. I'm 52 and have got by without driving all this time.

Definitely not a cheeky fucker asking for lifts either. More often I was politely turning them down because I was thinking oh by the time you've moved all the car seats I'll be half way there.

BraveryBot9to5 · 29/05/2022 13:39

@GoldfinchTart the decision not to run a car has added to my quality of life. I wouldn't have as much spare income as I'd need to feel secure and safe and free if I ran a car. It's not rocket science. There are millions like me content to rely on buses or get a taxi home occasionally or just ........ NOT GO.

Not having a car has freed me up massively.

rookiemere · 29/05/2022 13:49

I really don't think the USA with their complete over reliance on being able to drive is something we should aspire to.

For a start the USA is more sprawling and urban than generally in the UK. Fair enough if you're living rurally but if you grew up and live in central London - for example- there's very little reason to ever learn to drive.

Plus in the USA in some parts, they can't grasp the concept that walking or cycling if your journey is shorter than a couple of miles is much better for your health and the environment. When we were in Florida a few years ago we would walk to the local restaurant which was about a 10 minute walk away - generally got taxi drivers stopping and looking stunned when we said we didn't need a lift.

TheWayoftheLeaf · 29/05/2022 14:16

I live in London and as such don't own a car (because parking isn't available for me). It costs about £500+ to rent a car for a week. They might as well go abroad for that

User6761 · 29/05/2022 14:27

BraveryBot9to5 · 29/05/2022 13:25

I agree! To me, you just get around not driving by living near bus routes, or being prepared to walk

The 4,000 euro I was quoted for insurance as a driver with no driving history would equate to taxi trips to the value of about 75 euro per week.

I also feel OK in my choice not to put another car on the road. I cannot believe that while there are documentaries being aired about the state of the planet some people are saying (shaming) ''its a life skill''. No figuring out how to make your own life run is the skill. I'm 52 and have got by without driving all this time.

Definitely not a cheeky fucker asking for lifts either. More often I was politely turning them down because I was thinking oh by the time you've moved all the car seats I'll be half way there.

This. Completely agree.

user3199 · 29/05/2022 14:48

@user3199, when you said
Most of the things you mentioned using a car for when you were young (e.g to get to train station) I could easily do without a car.

you missed my point. During the school/university holidays I would work all day (local shop, picking strawberries or apples, child-minding, cleaning) in the relatively rural area where we lived. I'd get to those jobs by car. If I hadn't had a car I wouldn't have been able to do half of them.

OP, I think you missed my point - I totally understand that learning to drive enabled you to do lots of things as a teenager/young adult living rurally that you otherwise wouldn't have been able to do. My point is that I also did all those things - jobs, uni, visiting friends, concerts etc. very easily without driving - and without relying on others to drive me. If you don't live rurally, then having a car/being able to drive isn't such a necessity for many people.

You are annoyed that some non-drivers you know expect you to drive them around. I think it's reasonable that you feel that way . But it is unreasonable for you to assume all non drivers rely on others for lifts, find it hard to get around, aren't able to socialise, work, travel etc. Your lifestyle seems very car dependent. Mine, and lots of other people's, is not.

"20% of journeys in Britain are under 1 mile (a distance easily cycled in around 5 minutes); 38% are under 2 miles" - as some PPs have said, we should all be trying to reduce our reliance on cars for our own health and the environment.

Bigbluebikerider · 29/05/2022 17:33

This one is dead easy - people like this are called spongers. They organise their whole lives around sponging off others.
I don’t suppose they offered to pay for transport etc. bet not.
have nothing to do with them.

SharonEllis · 29/05/2022 17:38

I don't drive. I hate it as I feel a failure but there are lots of good reasons why it hasn't happened....but I don't expect people to give me lifts. Especially if people don't have the expense of keeping a car they can generally afford taxis when public transport fails to work - if someone is really short of money it seems reasonable to offer them lifts but that's not the case with your example!. We do have a household car so I'm not extravagant with the taxis. I also offer petrol money where its appropriate if I do get a lift, or I buy the lunch or whatever.

What I do object to is, though, is the inadequacy of public transport outside London. I also object to events which depend on people having cars - e.g. Work meetings in hotels off motorways so everyone goes in their cars and the people that don't drive for whatever reason have to be dependant on others or can't go. This sort of thing should be planned with a focus on getting people out of their cars, sharing cars as the norm, public transport (& walking) etc.

ManyBooksLittleTime · 29/05/2022 17:43

I don't drive. I'm never going to. I catch public transport all the time and am very independent. I never expect lifts. Other non-drivers I know also don't act like your neighbours, friends and relatives. They are not the norm and you are unlucky to know so many nutters.

Ortega888 · 29/05/2022 17:59

Make sure you get your garden tools back and if asked about lifts say you would love to but your just too busy with work. In future go off by yourself as there are too many free loaders looking to take advantage and once you do it once they will expect it each and every time. I don’t drive and I walk get a taxi or a bus I wouldn’t dream of putting on my friends family or neighbours for lifts.

itsjustnotok · 29/05/2022 18:05

I passed my test but had an accident (I wasn’t driving) which resulted in panic attacks whenever I got behind the wheel. So I choose not to drive. I do not however expect others to drive me anywhere. I walk most places and am happy to do so. Your neighbours are CF

RedStef1983 · 29/05/2022 18:11

I have a licence but I don’t have a car. I haven’t driven for many years and would not feel comfortable on the roads without a decent amount of refresher lessons. I don’t have a problem with operating a car, but I do have a problem with the amount of dkhds on the roads.

I live within a half hour walk of parents, in laws, closest friends, and work. Big grocery orders are delivered otherwise local supermarket is a 5 min walk.

I don’t ask for lifts from anyone - apart from my dad occasionally! (I’m 39 😂)

I don’t feel that we lack a quality life experience by not having a car, it just takes a bit more forethought to get to places further afield and it’s harder to be spontaneous.

Buying a car isn’t in the cards for now but I’ll be looking into it once my daughter starts school and we don’t have private nursery fees to pay for!

Momicrone · 29/05/2022 18:12

Sharon Ellis, can you not get train/bus to nearest point, then taxi

GirlFaeMars · 29/05/2022 18:15

I don’t drive. I don’t want to either. I rely on public transport, my own 2 feet or my bike. I very rarely ask for a lift, only if it’s truly unavoidable.
I hate entitled people who expect lifts everywhere.
unfortunately it looks like I’m going to have to learn drive soon because of my husbands work, but I’d only be driving occasionally.

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