AIBU to be fed-up of non-drivers seeking lifts?

[GoldfinchTart]

Disclaimer: this post is not about people who for whatever reason — sight problems, epilepsy, disability, poverty etc — cannot drive. It's about people who could learn to drive but don't want to.

Earlier this week I had a knock at the door and it was a couple asking if I could lend them some gardening equipment. They're in the process of buying a property a few doors along from me. It's a probate sale and it's taking ages, so they'd come down (with the vendors' permission) to start tidying up the garden which has become quite overgrown. They wanted a rake and a spade and loppers 'Because it's difficult to carry a rake on the train'. I invited them in and made them tea while I went to unlock the shed and find the tools. Turns out neither of them drive. He has a licence but found driving stressful and she prefers to be driven.

Our houses are a half-mile walk to a bus stop which isn't much fun when it's pouring with rain. I raised an eyebrow and asked if they cycle? Electric bikes are getting popular around here. We're 11 hilly miles from the nearest major town for shopping and transport links. No, they don't cycle. Long silence. I said that was a pity: taxis were very expensive because they had to come out from the town. She said that they have very nice neighbours where they currently live and they help out with lifts. Apparently the nice neighbours had run these two to the station that morning and would pick them up on their return. And then she asked 'I don't suppose you'd be going into town around 4pm, would you?' Fortunately I had a full afternoon's zoom meeting booked and showed them my diary. My partner and I try to be good neighbours but surely this was a very large red flag?

Next week I'm going to a book festival. I'm going in the camper van my partner and I share. A friend who doesn't drive is coming by train and will be travelling with a tent and camping gear. We arranged that I would be at Hereford station to pick her and her gear up at a certain time. It was planned to give us time to drive to the festival campsite and then for me to go and attend one of the events, which I've booked and paid for in advance. Today she's contacted me to say that she can't get anyone to give her a lift to the station at her end in order to catch the train required. Someone can give her a lift later to the station later in the morning, so she'll be arriving in Hereford two hours later than planned. She still expects me to pick her up from Hereford. I've told her she'll have to catch the bus from Hereford and she's responded that she has far too much gear to get on a bus. She fancies herself as a bit of a green crusader, always knocking me and my partner for having two vehicles and yet she's totally dependent on drivers to get her around.

In August my 28-year-old nephew and his girlfriend are coming to stay. They hope to go walking in the area and to visit several out-of-the-way places. They live in London and don't drive. It's become clear while we've been making arrangements that if they're to do half of what they've planned, I'll need to ferry them around almost every day. They're my relatives, they're here for a week and I'll do it without grumbling. But they'd have far more freedom and independence if they learned to drive and could hire a car for a week.

It strikes me that driving is one of those life skills that all eligible adults should be capable of, even if they choose not to own a car. AIBU?

While I’m obviously not a fan of the ‘Everyone should drive’ school of thought, I’m not sure everything children are taught in school is that essential either. My intake was forced to do CDT at GCSE level - CD bloody T! It couldn’t have been a bigger waste of time. I’d have probably been just as shite at driving as I was at CDT, but at least it would have been something with the potential to be useful.

Of course individual driving lessons for every student would be prohibitively expensive, but the theory side wouldn’t require individual lessons. Neither would a couple of demo sessions in a dual control car where pupils got to try for a few minutes.

We give lifts to our gs's who live with us because we live rurally. The eldest is slow at learning to drive and currently we get up at 5.30 am to take him to work. Its time for a serious chat here.

The worst CF I came across was an old boss. She was beyond vile to staff. When there were out of town meetings, she did not book the train she commandeered staff member's cars. This was the same person who said I could do without my parking pass to save money, although I was the only staff member who lived outside a public transport area and it formed part of my contract. Other staff kindly let me have theirs when they moved on etc.

She had booked an out of town meeting and asked what time I could collect her. I told her I couldn't because I no longer brought my car in with me because I had no parking facility in the town centre. Find some other mug.

Op, your new neighbours are really weird. I mean who does this. Do not offer any lifts and no more lending gardening equipment. Who buys a house miles from shops when you have no transport and a garden that requires work without equipment.

I’m not sure putting virtual-reality driving machines into schools and expecting the curriculum to drop however many hours of academic stuff to train teenagers in them, is really the best use of public money.

Because I have no ''driving history'' an insurance company quoted me 4,000 euro a year insurance, so, I could spend 70 euro a week on taxis before it'd work out MORE than that insurance, and that's before petrol, the car itself, registration, servicing.

The notion that taxis are too expensive is erroneous.

I live near several bus routes though. I can (and do) walk to train station if I need to. 35 mins walk.

These threads make it clear that while a car represents freedom for a lot of people, it can represent slavery to many others who just cannot really afford it.

I’m sorry but having the opportunity to travel and work abroad is privilege.

Having the money to pay for driving lessons, test, insurance, car, running costs is privilege.

There are a lot of children not getting the opportunity to have their worlds “opened up” and for them what you describe is an aspiration beyond their reach.

Again. You have been very lucky to have had the opportunities and experiences you have had.

Ha! Cheeky sods. You did very well to be so kind to them. I’d have struggled to keep a straight face! They’ve moved miles away from all the facilities they need and their plan is ‘the neighbours will take us’. Who do they think they are?! YANBU

Agree a couple of demo sessions wouldn’t be that expensive in money or time - but it also wouldn’t be enough to get them driving at the end of it, so it doesn’t feel like it would achieve what the OP’s after.

Come to think of it though I’d support more lessons on safe road use and the Highway Code. Thats relevant and useful for almost everyone whether they drive or not.

From the perspective of a non-driver:

I’ve been in an unusual situation recently where I’ve been offered a lot of lifts to different things. On all of these occasions the people driving were going there themselves anyway. However I’ve begun to realise there is resentment that I can’t offer lifts in return. This really annoys me. I live somewhere with good public transport links - I chose it for this reason - and don’t actually need the lifts. If I start refusing the lifts it will look odd - last time I tried to say ‘no thanks’ I was argued into accepting - but actually I don’t always want a lift. I walk a lot and enjoy it. If someone’s driving you, you can’t decide when you want to go home. So the assumption by some people with cars that anyone who doesn’t drive is cadging lifts is really annoying.

Okay. To see the Milky Way properly you need to be somewhere dark, which usually means somewhere pretty deserted and at dark moon, when the stars are easier to see. You have to have a cloud-free night. You also need a flat sea and for it to be as warm as possible, otherwise you'll get cold very quickly and won't be able simply to lie back and look up. It's possible that you might get all these things falling into place on your holiday in Scotland or West Wales or Devon or in Europe. In the Med it should be easier if you can get away from lit areas.

For most people, even those who live by the coast, the darkest safe beaches will be a few miles away from built-up areas. And it's best to do this around midnight in the summer in my experience. So few buses running. Maybe you're young and fit enough to cycle or walk there. My nearest suitable place is 20+ miles away, a 20-minute drive. I couldn't walk it. It's a long way to cycle back in the early hours of the morning. There are no buses. I suppose I could pay a taxi to pick me up, take me there and wait to bring me home again, but I can't imagine what that would cost. But with a car I can check the weather, check the moon, check the sea conditions and be there within half an hour.

It's things like this — lying in a calm sea, looking up at the vastness of the universe — that I prize far more than a big house or expensive clothes or smart watches and cruises. I'd feel very sad to think that I'll never had the opportunity to do it again.

Yes… it’s quite delusional. Some sort of mid-late life crisis where they can’t admit to themselves they might only have 5-10yrs before selling up….. but if that is their dream, any time is better than nothing!

You come across as a massive doormat which you confuse as being nice. You allowed two strangers to borrow your tools, made them a cup of tea and then showed them your diary to prove you won't be available. Honestly what a doormat. That wasn't being nice or friendly that was people pleasing. You need to have boundaries. As for the rest, the same applies. CF and doormats are a perfect match and you should think about why you keep attracting these types.

I suppose I could pay a taxi to pick me up, take me there and wait to bring me home again, but I can't imagine what that would cost.

…probably less than buying or running a car would cost?

I get that the Milky Way is beautiful. I have, in fact, seen it myself in the middle of the Australian outback very far away from any artificial lights. It’s amazing. But it is really not only achieveable if you drive your own car, or I wouldn’t have been able to do it.

Being unable or unwilling to drive probably does mean people can’t do your specific holidays in specifically the exact way you did them, but they can probably manage fairly well, even if you by your own admission can’t imagine how.

Again. This is all about YOU. Why are you struggling to grasp that other people might not prioritise the same things as you? Why are you so insistent that people should learn to drive so they can do things that YOU enjoy, when those people might not want to do those things at all?

Of course I speak about me in response to someone questioning me about my experience. I'm saying that being able to drive has contributed massively to my quality of life and given me opportunities to do things that would be unimaginable if I didn't drive. That was just one illustration. Other people can use their driving skills to do whatever they want. But if you don't drive your options are limited.

This.

OP some can’t afford to drive. Some prioritise other things. Some calculate that for the amount they travel, having a car would be more expensive. Some do not want to drive. Some would like to but can’t.

Your ideology around the matter is your own. And you can’t impose this on other people.

What you can do is control your behaviour and be assertive regarding what you are/aren’t happy with doing. Simple.

What a bunch of presumptive cheeky buggers. I don't drive. I am going to get a license and little runaround because I'm home educating and it's needed to give my daughter the best experience, but I've never learned to drive previously as I live in a city, don't want the cost of running a car, and prefer not to add to danger on the roads, I never fancied myself competent due to being quite clumsy.

But I am going to learn. I do not rely on others for lifts in that I would never pressure anyone or hint... I am prepared to get cabs, walk, or other public transport.

These people are purely relying on guilt or assuming you have nothing better to do, and with the cost of petrol?! Outrageous.

Of course I speak about me in response to someone questioning me about my experience.

But I’m not questioning you about your experience. I’m questioning your extrapolation from “I like to do these specific things in this specific way” to “therefore, I can’t imagine why someone else who is not me would think they didn’t need/want to drive.”

I have friends who go on sailing holidays. They seem to have great fun. But they aren’t suggesting that everyone learns how to sail in schools because otherwise nobody would be able to see the sea, and they could not imagine such a limited life.

You don't think there'd be queues of kids wanting to use them during breaks? You don't think that kids who are struggling academically and failing to learn French or Spanish might benefit from learning to drive at school? We're all relying increasingly on deliveries. There's a shortage of drivers at every level from HGV to UPS and Amazon. You don't think that allowing the most deprived kids the chance to learn to drive at school might make them more employable and give them more choices in life?

It's always people who learn at 17 who say this. Same ones who drone on about travelling being an essential activity.

Not everyone has the same life as you - and I say that as someone who can drive. It's expensive to learn and maintain a car, takes time and requires someone to practice with, some people just use public transport. It's not essential for everyone.

Your analogy is ridiculous. Sailing's a hobby. Driving is a daily requirement for a great many people. Who do you think delivers your groceries — whether to your door or to your local shop or supermarkets? Who will get you to hospital in an ambulance if you call one? Who'll deliver your new mattress or garden shed or the stuff you bought from Ikea. Not sailors.

I suspect we’re coming from irreconcilably different viewpoints here on what education is for. But no, I genuinely don’t believe it’s a good use of public money to pour huge resources into schools for driving lessons and virtual reality driving machines so that we can train the next generation of poor kids up to bring us stuff from Amazon.

But my options aren't limited. Because there's nothing I want to do that requires me to be able to drive. If there was something I desperately wanted to do that I couldn't possibly do without being able to drive, then I'd learn.

I've probably done more than a lot of people who CAN drive anyway. I've been to over 20 different countries. I've lived in a city, in a seaside town and in the new forest. My DS does 3 different activities. Lack of a car hasn't hindered me. And to be honest if I had the added expense of running a car I'd have to cut back on those things. As it stands I have no travel costs because my work is walking distance from my house.

But your example of why driving was an essential life skill that everyone should learn was YOUR hobby!

I don’t see what “but paramedics have to drive” has to do with this? Ferry operators and the coast guard have to learn to sail, but that doesn’t make it an essential life skill for everyone, surely?

I definitely do not want even more over confident, under qualified drivers on the road!

Honestly, the standard of driving I've witnessed since Covid (including someone watching Strictly at 70mph in the middle lane!) has made me even more convinced that I don't want any part of it.

Besides, I don't see what teaching driving in schools would do about people who actively don't want to drive anyway?

My mate in Cornwall was at her wits' end with her son, who'd dropped out of university and was struggling to get anything other than low-paid seasonal work in their area. He started delivering for Tesco during lockdown and was surprised at how much he enjoyed it. He was later recruited and trained (for free) to be an HGV driver. He's recently had an offer accepted on a house, something that two years ago seemed an impossibility. His long-term goal now is to drive for a few years and study to be an electrician part-time. You can't be an electrician or a plumber or a carpenter without being able to drive.

As it's the young people who struggle academically who end up going into trades (trades that we all rely on) then it seems to me to be particularly important that those young people have the opportunity to learn to drive.