AIBU to be fed-up of non-drivers seeking lifts?

[GoldfinchTart]

Disclaimer: this post is not about people who for whatever reason — sight problems, epilepsy, disability, poverty etc — cannot drive. It's about people who could learn to drive but don't want to.

Earlier this week I had a knock at the door and it was a couple asking if I could lend them some gardening equipment. They're in the process of buying a property a few doors along from me. It's a probate sale and it's taking ages, so they'd come down (with the vendors' permission) to start tidying up the garden which has become quite overgrown. They wanted a rake and a spade and loppers 'Because it's difficult to carry a rake on the train'. I invited them in and made them tea while I went to unlock the shed and find the tools. Turns out neither of them drive. He has a licence but found driving stressful and she prefers to be driven.

Our houses are a half-mile walk to a bus stop which isn't much fun when it's pouring with rain. I raised an eyebrow and asked if they cycle? Electric bikes are getting popular around here. We're 11 hilly miles from the nearest major town for shopping and transport links. No, they don't cycle. Long silence. I said that was a pity: taxis were very expensive because they had to come out from the town. She said that they have very nice neighbours where they currently live and they help out with lifts. Apparently the nice neighbours had run these two to the station that morning and would pick them up on their return. And then she asked 'I don't suppose you'd be going into town around 4pm, would you?' Fortunately I had a full afternoon's zoom meeting booked and showed them my diary. My partner and I try to be good neighbours but surely this was a very large red flag?

Next week I'm going to a book festival. I'm going in the camper van my partner and I share. A friend who doesn't drive is coming by train and will be travelling with a tent and camping gear. We arranged that I would be at Hereford station to pick her and her gear up at a certain time. It was planned to give us time to drive to the festival campsite and then for me to go and attend one of the events, which I've booked and paid for in advance. Today she's contacted me to say that she can't get anyone to give her a lift to the station at her end in order to catch the train required. Someone can give her a lift later to the station later in the morning, so she'll be arriving in Hereford two hours later than planned. She still expects me to pick her up from Hereford. I've told her she'll have to catch the bus from Hereford and she's responded that she has far too much gear to get on a bus. She fancies herself as a bit of a green crusader, always knocking me and my partner for having two vehicles and yet she's totally dependent on drivers to get her around.

In August my 28-year-old nephew and his girlfriend are coming to stay. They hope to go walking in the area and to visit several out-of-the-way places. They live in London and don't drive. It's become clear while we've been making arrangements that if they're to do half of what they've planned, I'll need to ferry them around almost every day. They're my relatives, they're here for a week and I'll do it without grumbling. But they'd have far more freedom and independence if they learned to drive and could hire a car for a week.

It strikes me that driving is one of those life skills that all eligible adults should be capable of, even if they choose not to own a car. AIBU?

This in spades. I hate the phrase but you seriously must check you’re privilege.

I'd have thought your new neighbours will struggle living in an area like that. Not your problem though.

I don't drive and wouldn't consider living somewhere isolated like that, I'd be miserable and feel very cut off. I've lived in several cities - including abroad. Never had a problem not driving as have always lived in places with plenty of local amenities and decent public transport, including when I was a child. So I can't really relate to 'needing' to learn to drive at 17.

The OP said they couldn't imagine not being able to drive but I suppose equally I can't imagine having to be so reliant on a car (or rather I can imagine it and I wouldn't like it). Most of the things you mentioned using a car for when you were young (e.g to get to train station) I could easily do without a car.

Nowadays I have several local food shops, pharmacy, post office, hairdressers, library, restaurants, deli, leisure centre and skate park within 10 mins walk of home. The nearest park is less than 5 mins walk and three more within 20mins. Buses to city centre run every few mins and run all night - no need to plan to take a specific one. Child's nursery is a few mins walk, primary school 10 mins walk in one direction, the secondary 10 mins walk in another. We do have a car - partner drives - but it is rarely used, mainly for visiting relatives in a small town a couple of hours away.

And I have travelled widely and seen many amazing things - but to be honest usually on a budget that wouldn't have allowed for the type of trips you describe irrespective of my ability to drive!

YANBU! The majority of my friends do not drive and neither do their partners. I find it very frustrating as it means if we make plans together, I either need to pick them up or arrange to meet in their local area so they can travel by foot. The public transport in our area is terrible so it is never really considered an option, especially in their eyes when it ‘only’ takes me 30 minutes to drive.

Perhaps it sounds selfish, but it gets exhausting when making plans with friends either entails you doing all the running around and/or accommodating their lack of transport.

Interesting perception I have from these type of threads is that a significant percentage of people in the UK don’t drive.
Reality is that around the same percentage of people in UK hold driving Licences as in Australia at about 74%.
I think a lot depends on life experience. I grew up in rural Australia, the need was to be able to drive to get anywhere. I don’t know anyone that I grew up with, that does not have a license.
If you are city based, I see no need to drive as public transport infrastructure is so much better and car parks are few and expensive.
CF new neighbors, say no. I would like an update once they move in to see how they manage.

I think asking to borrow some perfect strangers' gardening tools is a bit much. Then asking for a lift to the station afterwards! It does not bode well.

You can't make other people learn to drive and buy cars, but you can work on your saying no skills, I guess.

If you choose not to drive, fine. Who cares, but don’t ask for or expect lifts.

Ditto people, mainly women, who won’t drive on motorways, far from home, or in cities

I drove all my life, until I became disabled. So now I’m unable to drive.
Here in the States where I live there’s a disabled bus service that costs $1.50 each way across the city, plus I have a helper I pay for helping me around the house, so she is also available to give me a lift when I need it.

For anyone to expect anything, regardless of what it is, is a gigantic CF and is taking the mick on a huge scale.

If I were you, @GoldfinchTart, I’d keep a spare calendar at the ready, all filled out where you’re busy all day long every day so your CF new neighbors can’t catch you off guard.
Or, you could just say no.

In your opinion but you need to accept that other people may have different opinion about driving.
I do drive by the way but I don’t like driving and I don’t share your sentiments about wonderful things you discovered while driving. I live in London and don’t really need a car to get around. Public transport is amazing and you can go well beyond zone 2.
When I went to Napa valley on holiday I didn’t drive there but took Uber around and enjoyed it a lot. I could have rented a car but decided against it because I knew what I wanted to see and knew that it will be accessible by Uber. I did rent a car when I went to Spain and despite discovering some places I found it stressful and tiring.
people are different so you can’t expect everyone share your love and view of benefits of driving. You are fully entitled not to give lifts though

I don't drive for medical reasons and hate relying on people for lifts unless I really have to. I've come across a few people who invite me to things in the arse end of nowhere, don't think about how I'll get there and get arsey because I've told them I can't get there.

Oh I did that too!

Outrageous! I’m retiring there.

Which is very different from living there as a teenager.

I still visit my parents, my village is beautiful. Wouldn’t want to live there. Especially in winter.

No, I wasn't enormously privileged. I came from a very ordinary aspirational working class family where we didn't own a car until I was 12 or 13. First my dad learned to drive, then my mum in her 40s. We had a really ancient car that my dad maintained at home and couldn't go above 40mph. My schoolfriends laughed at, but it got us to places we would never otherwise have been able to visit and opened my world up. .

I've never earned more than the national average salary (and most of the time not that). Several of my jobs have required me to be able to drive (including jobs in Australia and New Zealand) and one of those jobs here in the UK led to bigger and better things.

Rather than driving being a privilege I want it to be a skill that everyone has, something taught in schools. Surely with simulators every student could learn all the basics and reduce the number of actual paid lessons they need? In this area even hard-up families prioritise getting their youngsters driving, because without it their children's options are very severely limited. Driving and typing. Two skills that in my book are more important than a lot of stuff on the curriculum.

What a lovely but sad posting name you have. I hope one day you can get to the moors again. Very sorry to hear that your disability has taken you off the road but pleased that there's a dedicated bus service for you. We do have a community transport scheme in this area, run by volunteers, but its mainly to help the elderly or disabled get to hospital appointments and not for the weekly shopping trip.

As I said yesterday, these people turning up out of the blue and asking for gardening tools had me off-balance from the start. They won't catch me out like that again.

Tigerrag - why does someone living in there arse end of nowhere mean you can't get there?

Actually, a lot of people retire to rural areas and it’s a nightmare for them if they need to stop driving. Very isolating.

Yes, and it also means that if you are the designated driver every time, you never get to have a drink. I stopped drinking when I was menopausal because it made the symptoms far worse, so for a few years I was happy to do all the driving. But now I'm through the worst and able to have a glass or two without my thermostat going up to a million degrees, I am firmer about taking turns driving.

I remember when I lived in London and would hire a car or van for a weekend to do things like a run to the dump with stuff I couldn't put in my bin, or a trip to Ikea to buy something bulky. Suddenly all my friends wanted to come to Ikea too, or remembered that they had bulky stuff for the dump that I needed to pick up from them. Friends who drive are so useful, aren't they?

It would cost an awful lot to have free driving lessons in schools. And take time out of the school day. Is that really the best use of the education budget?

Plus, the cheeky garden-tools-borrowing neighbours do have at least one license between them, so seems being able to drive has not stopped them being scroungers…

This is one reason I wouldn’t retire to a rural area.

I do wonder about all the Escape to the Country couples, planning to move halfway up a mountain in rural Wales now they’re retired. (With a huge kitchen ´for entertaining’ and some outbuildings so Gerald can start the llama-farming hobby he’s always dreamed of.)

@user3199, when you said
Most of the things you mentioned using a car for when you were young (e.g to get to train station) I could easily do without a car.

you missed my point. During the school/university holidays I would work all day (local shop, picking strawberries or apples, child-minding, cleaning) in the relatively rural area where we lived. I'd get to those jobs by car. If I hadn't had a car I wouldn't have been able to do half of them. In the evening I'd drive to the station and take the train to London for a gig or a play, and be able to get myself back home. There was no bus service from the station back to where I lived after the early evening and no taxis (and a taxi would have been crazily expensive). Having the car meant I could drive myself back home.

I think all those taking about what they could easily do without a car are missing the point. There are loads of things people don't do because they don't have a car.

Yes, and we (in our early 60s) are very mindful that we'll need to move to somewhere where there are better transport links in a few years.

I hear you. 8 goes it took me. Now I finally have that piece of paper though, I cannot face sinking every cent and more in to car ownership. I carry on using buses, I walk, I occasionally get a taxi, or, I just don't go! Easy. Never put upon anybody else asking for lifts. I tend to think that if I have to ask for a lift to get there, I shouldn't go 'there'.

I was thinking about simulators of some kind. This is surely where virtual reality could be really useful.