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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be fed-up of non-drivers seeking lifts?

607 replies

GoldfinchTart · 28/05/2022 12:03

Disclaimer: this post is not about people who for whatever reason — sight problems, epilepsy, disability, poverty etc — cannot drive. It's about people who could learn to drive but don't want to.

Earlier this week I had a knock at the door and it was a couple asking if I could lend them some gardening equipment. They're in the process of buying a property a few doors along from me. It's a probate sale and it's taking ages, so they'd come down (with the vendors' permission) to start tidying up the garden which has become quite overgrown. They wanted a rake and a spade and loppers 'Because it's difficult to carry a rake on the train'. I invited them in and made them tea while I went to unlock the shed and find the tools. Turns out neither of them drive. He has a licence but found driving stressful and she prefers to be driven.

Our houses are a half-mile walk to a bus stop which isn't much fun when it's pouring with rain. I raised an eyebrow and asked if they cycle? Electric bikes are getting popular around here. We're 11 hilly miles from the nearest major town for shopping and transport links. No, they don't cycle. Long silence. I said that was a pity: taxis were very expensive because they had to come out from the town. She said that they have very nice neighbours where they currently live and they help out with lifts. Apparently the nice neighbours had run these two to the station that morning and would pick them up on their return. And then she asked 'I don't suppose you'd be going into town around 4pm, would you?' Fortunately I had a full afternoon's zoom meeting booked and showed them my diary. My partner and I try to be good neighbours but surely this was a very large red flag?

Next week I'm going to a book festival. I'm going in the camper van my partner and I share. A friend who doesn't drive is coming by train and will be travelling with a tent and camping gear. We arranged that I would be at Hereford station to pick her and her gear up at a certain time. It was planned to give us time to drive to the festival campsite and then for me to go and attend one of the events, which I've booked and paid for in advance. Today she's contacted me to say that she can't get anyone to give her a lift to the station at her end in order to catch the train required. Someone can give her a lift later to the station later in the morning, so she'll be arriving in Hereford two hours later than planned. She still expects me to pick her up from Hereford. I've told her she'll have to catch the bus from Hereford and she's responded that she has far too much gear to get on a bus. She fancies herself as a bit of a green crusader, always knocking me and my partner for having two vehicles and yet she's totally dependent on drivers to get her around.

In August my 28-year-old nephew and his girlfriend are coming to stay. They hope to go walking in the area and to visit several out-of-the-way places. They live in London and don't drive. It's become clear while we've been making arrangements that if they're to do half of what they've planned, I'll need to ferry them around almost every day. They're my relatives, they're here for a week and I'll do it without grumbling. But they'd have far more freedom and independence if they learned to drive and could hire a car for a week.

It strikes me that driving is one of those life skills that all eligible adults should be capable of, even if they choose not to own a car. AIBU?

OP posts:
WomanStanleyWoman2 · 28/05/2022 18:18

GoldfinchTart · 28/05/2022 13:32

I can't imagine living in the centre of various cities and not wanting to have access, even occasionally, to glorious countryside. (And I'm someone who lived in Zone 2 for 18 years) I can't imagine never experiencing what it's like to float at midnight under dark skies on a flat sea with the Milky Way overhead, which is something I do most summers but requires a car.

I can't imagine the limitations of where you can go when visiting the US or New Zealand or Australia (all places I've driven). Many of the memories that I'll cherish for ever involve driving. Taking a side turning in New Zealand and finding a near-deserted settlement with a glorious, driftwood-strewn beach and a blue lagoon and sitting in the sun enjoying the total peace and serenity of the place. Taking a side-road in France and finding ourselves driving under ancient trees and, at the end, a medieval village and a wonderful lunch. Going to visit friends in the mountains in Southern Spain, where there's no public transport at all, and not feeling as if I was a burden on them. Taking a detour through the Brecon Beacons and stumbling on an historic Tudor house open to the public with the most magnificent views. I can't thank my dear departed mum enough for booking my first driving lesson on my 17th birthday.

The OTT frustrated post language aside, could you really not have experienced any of this without a car? Not ONE nice beach accessible via public transport? NO trains to rural areas whatsoever, even if they’re only every other hour?

I get that having a car/driving licence brings freedom, but it also brings limits of its own. There’s the time and financial cost involved in learning; there’s paying for, insuring and storing a vehicle. It’s not organisation-free either. When you visited that remote Spanish village, did you get the ferry from the UK and drive all the way yourself? Or did you have to find a hire company, book a vehicle, plan your route etc.? That all takes organisation - just as working out a route via public transport takes organisation.

NamechangeFML · 28/05/2022 18:18

I think not offering a lift is really horrid behaviour.
As a non driver, then driver: I promised myself id never drive by a friend /collegue acquaintance in the dark or the rain ! And its been done to me, loads!
there used to be a great bus service to where i live, then it became worse and then non existent!
I've worked with people who live in the same place as me , or drive through it? Would they not rather have some petrol money?
the neighbours are obv chancers - but are you really going to drive by them if you're goinh in their direction?
hope you never need a parcel delivered to them? Or your cats feed/plants watered ...

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 28/05/2022 18:20

Snowraingain · 28/05/2022 18:05

My sainted brother lives in London and neither he or his gf drive. For environmental reasons and they don't need to most of the time. But it's amazing how often my mum insists I give him a lift or pick them up.

What is her response when you say no?

GoldenOmber · 28/05/2022 18:31

well, at least “if you can’t drive you’ll never see the Milky Way” is a new addition to MN threads about non-drivers. Bonkers, but new.

Fairislefandango · 28/05/2022 18:38

YABU to expect people to drive. YANBU not to give lifts if it’s not convenient.

10 pages of posts when the entire thing can be summed up like that.

OP - your long posts about the wonderful things for which you've used a car are just that - anecdotes about stuff you like to do and why you like driving. I expect other people have got equally lovely stories about interrailing around Europe, cycling tours of the West Country, coach trips to Blackpool or other non-car-related activities. Car drivers don't have a monopoly on fun travel.

Daleksatemyshed · 28/05/2022 19:20

In truth the reason non drivers ask for lifts is because the public transport is often shit. Why is it shit, because so many people drive that it becomes uneconomic for companies to run a decent service.

GoldfinchTart · 28/05/2022 19:31

GoldenOmber · 28/05/2022 18:31

well, at least “if you can’t drive you’ll never see the Milky Way” is a new addition to MN threads about non-drivers. Bonkers, but new.

You know that wasn't what I said. But if you have to misrepresent me in order to feel justified in calling me bonkers...

OP posts:
chaosmaker · 28/05/2022 19:31

WouldBeGood · 28/05/2022 17:57

@chaosmaker that wouldn’t work in Scotland or other rural areas. People need to drive there.

But that is because it's been government policy to push driving for decades and not push/invest in public transport at the same rate. I wonder about the future generations who were part of the school protests and whether they will want to be drivers or are more likely to advocate for change. Public transport should be free and paid for by taxes imo.

GoldfinchTart · 28/05/2022 19:33

Fairislefandango · 28/05/2022 18:38

YABU to expect people to drive. YANBU not to give lifts if it’s not convenient.

10 pages of posts when the entire thing can be summed up like that.

OP - your long posts about the wonderful things for which you've used a car are just that - anecdotes about stuff you like to do and why you like driving. I expect other people have got equally lovely stories about interrailing around Europe, cycling tours of the West Country, coach trips to Blackpool or other non-car-related activities. Car drivers don't have a monopoly on fun travel.

I've been interrailing too, and across Europe by bus in the 80s. And I've used the US and Canadian and New Zealand railways. Driving is different and has its own rewards.

OP posts:
GoldenOmber · 28/05/2022 19:39

GoldfinchTart · 28/05/2022 19:31

You know that wasn't what I said. But if you have to misrepresent me in order to feel justified in calling me bonkers...

well, okay, to be fair what you actually said re: not being able to imagine not driving was “I can't imagine never experiencing what it's like to float at midnight under dark skies on a flat sea with the Milky Way overhead.”

I appreciate this is something you did using a car, but surely you can imagine other ways people have managed to see this without a car? I mean presumably you weren’t floating at sea on a car….

Badyboo · 28/05/2022 19:42

GreatCuppa · 28/05/2022 12:41

I grew up in Herefordshire. The first thing we all did was learn to drive…

Or move away as soon as possible...

DockOTheBay · 28/05/2022 19:54

Interesting that they're buying a house "a few doors down", not next door. Do you reckon they tried the houses in between and were told no, and just kept going until they found someone gullible enough to invite them in?

Newmumatlast · 28/05/2022 19:58

GoldfinchTart · 28/05/2022 12:03

Disclaimer: this post is not about people who for whatever reason — sight problems, epilepsy, disability, poverty etc — cannot drive. It's about people who could learn to drive but don't want to.

Earlier this week I had a knock at the door and it was a couple asking if I could lend them some gardening equipment. They're in the process of buying a property a few doors along from me. It's a probate sale and it's taking ages, so they'd come down (with the vendors' permission) to start tidying up the garden which has become quite overgrown. They wanted a rake and a spade and loppers 'Because it's difficult to carry a rake on the train'. I invited them in and made them tea while I went to unlock the shed and find the tools. Turns out neither of them drive. He has a licence but found driving stressful and she prefers to be driven.

Our houses are a half-mile walk to a bus stop which isn't much fun when it's pouring with rain. I raised an eyebrow and asked if they cycle? Electric bikes are getting popular around here. We're 11 hilly miles from the nearest major town for shopping and transport links. No, they don't cycle. Long silence. I said that was a pity: taxis were very expensive because they had to come out from the town. She said that they have very nice neighbours where they currently live and they help out with lifts. Apparently the nice neighbours had run these two to the station that morning and would pick them up on their return. And then she asked 'I don't suppose you'd be going into town around 4pm, would you?' Fortunately I had a full afternoon's zoom meeting booked and showed them my diary. My partner and I try to be good neighbours but surely this was a very large red flag?

Next week I'm going to a book festival. I'm going in the camper van my partner and I share. A friend who doesn't drive is coming by train and will be travelling with a tent and camping gear. We arranged that I would be at Hereford station to pick her and her gear up at a certain time. It was planned to give us time to drive to the festival campsite and then for me to go and attend one of the events, which I've booked and paid for in advance. Today she's contacted me to say that she can't get anyone to give her a lift to the station at her end in order to catch the train required. Someone can give her a lift later to the station later in the morning, so she'll be arriving in Hereford two hours later than planned. She still expects me to pick her up from Hereford. I've told her she'll have to catch the bus from Hereford and she's responded that she has far too much gear to get on a bus. She fancies herself as a bit of a green crusader, always knocking me and my partner for having two vehicles and yet she's totally dependent on drivers to get her around.

In August my 28-year-old nephew and his girlfriend are coming to stay. They hope to go walking in the area and to visit several out-of-the-way places. They live in London and don't drive. It's become clear while we've been making arrangements that if they're to do half of what they've planned, I'll need to ferry them around almost every day. They're my relatives, they're here for a week and I'll do it without grumbling. But they'd have far more freedom and independence if they learned to drive and could hire a car for a week.

It strikes me that driving is one of those life skills that all eligible adults should be capable of, even if they choose not to own a car. AIBU?

Yanbu in your view but yabu in facilitating it. Just say no. I get helping if it doesn't put you out but when it is in scenarios you have given, say no. They have public transport options- trains, buses, taxis. Other people use them. If they don't want to its tough. They have chosen not to drive.

GoldenOmber · 28/05/2022 19:59

DockOTheBay · 28/05/2022 19:54

Interesting that they're buying a house "a few doors down", not next door. Do you reckon they tried the houses in between and were told no, and just kept going until they found someone gullible enough to invite them in?

guess it’s worked for them before, if they turned up to tidy a garden without any garden tools guessing they could talk a neighbour into lending theirs.

MargosKaftan · 28/05/2022 20:19

DockOTheBay · 28/05/2022 19:54

Interesting that they're buying a house "a few doors down", not next door. Do you reckon they tried the houses in between and were told no, and just kept going until they found someone gullible enough to invite them in?

Sadly I think you might have it @DockOTheBay - seems the OP is a soft touch for lifts and sorting out other people's problems- they arrived with no tools, unable to gain access to the house, the OP fixed this for them, making them drinks, sorting tools etc.

Try to avoid getting into situations where you ask people about how they will sort problems. Dont arrange to do something with a friend who can only do that thing if you facilitate by driving and you don't want to drive them.

TicTac80 · 28/05/2022 20:23

I wouldn’t say that everyone should have a driving license. But I do agree that people shouldn’t just expect lifts and be CFers!

I didn’t get my license until I was nearly 29. I got myself about by walking, public transport and mainly cycling. If friends offered lifts (I didn’t ask them!), I always insisted on giving them what I would have paid for a taxi journey of similar distance. When DS was born, I was 26. He went in a wrap when I was walking and on a child seat when I cycled. I’m 41 now, and I have a car, however I still cycle journeys under 5 miles as much as possible. I lived in a village where there was one bus an hour.

your CF mate can bloody well take a taxi to the station, then at least you can pick her up at the time originally planned. Otherwise she can get a taxi to the festival!!

Crimeismymiddlename · 28/05/2022 21:18

Fully agree op. Though these people sound like cheeky fuckers anyway and would have people running around them with or without a driving license.
I don’t drive so have tailored my life so I live near transport links and can walk to town. I never, ever ask for lifts as am very capable of humping stuff around. Like everything you just get used to it, it’s not great but it’s not hard to get about.
I have a kind friend who will give me a lift home as we are going in the same direction-but I never ask her and am fully prepared to use bus pass.
Some drivers are insistent on offering lifts, it’s a bit embarrassing as sometimes I just want to walk home on my own and not feel a favour has been bestowed on me.
I am baffled that two people who don’t drive have choose not to live in such a public transport limited area.

SnackSizeRaisin · 28/05/2022 21:58

I drive and own a car but prefer to walk or cycle as much as possible. People are forever trying to force me to take a lift. It's really annoying.

On the other hand, people who don't drive sometimes don't seem to realise that it's inconvenient to give them a lift. If I drop mother in law off at the station it's a half hour round trip for me. It saves her half an hour on the bus. I think she should just get the bus. I would mind less if I had more free time but it's also the expectation. Also people who expect lifts for young children but neither provide a car seat nor make the child sit in the one that's already in the car. A short distance ok but no I am not taking you 20 miles to the zoo with a 2 year old loose in the back.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 28/05/2022 22:04

IfNoTwitterThenWhat · 28/05/2022 17:04

YANBU. I married a non driver and it makes life very difficult for me. He’s fine - like lots of the non drivers on this thread he uses public transport or cycles almost everywhere. What he doesn’t see is that everything family related falls to me. All the kids activities, all transporting of heavy stuff or DIY stuff, all holiday transport, all hospital appointments etc. pain in the neck. If he was posting on this thread he would say he manages just fine. He just doesn’t get it. To those of you with young kids, please do yourself a favour and learn. You don’t need two cars in the family but the freedom even with just the occasional use of a car is immense . I live in a small city but my kids would miss out on so much if I couldn’t drive

I'm a single parent, I don't drive and my child does not miss out on anything.

XenoBitch · 28/05/2022 22:04

SnackSizeRaisin · 28/05/2022 21:58

I drive and own a car but prefer to walk or cycle as much as possible. People are forever trying to force me to take a lift. It's really annoying.

On the other hand, people who don't drive sometimes don't seem to realise that it's inconvenient to give them a lift. If I drop mother in law off at the station it's a half hour round trip for me. It saves her half an hour on the bus. I think she should just get the bus. I would mind less if I had more free time but it's also the expectation. Also people who expect lifts for young children but neither provide a car seat nor make the child sit in the one that's already in the car. A short distance ok but no I am not taking you 20 miles to the zoo with a 2 year old loose in the back.

Yep, some people really do take the piss.
I used to have a friend who I would meet for coffee. She got the bus there, and I walked. She would then walk back to my house with me, and have me give her a lift home in my car.
Another time, a group of us went on a shopping trip to a city 50 miles away. 3 people in my car. Parking came to £25 for the day, plus £15 in fuel. Not a single person offered anything towards it.
I no longer drive, and funnily enough, I am not really in touch with those people anymore.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 28/05/2022 22:08

GoldfinchTart · 28/05/2022 13:32

I can't imagine living in the centre of various cities and not wanting to have access, even occasionally, to glorious countryside. (And I'm someone who lived in Zone 2 for 18 years) I can't imagine never experiencing what it's like to float at midnight under dark skies on a flat sea with the Milky Way overhead, which is something I do most summers but requires a car.

I can't imagine the limitations of where you can go when visiting the US or New Zealand or Australia (all places I've driven). Many of the memories that I'll cherish for ever involve driving. Taking a side turning in New Zealand and finding a near-deserted settlement with a glorious, driftwood-strewn beach and a blue lagoon and sitting in the sun enjoying the total peace and serenity of the place. Taking a side-road in France and finding ourselves driving under ancient trees and, at the end, a medieval village and a wonderful lunch. Going to visit friends in the mountains in Southern Spain, where there's no public transport at all, and not feeling as if I was a burden on them. Taking a detour through the Brecon Beacons and stumbling on an historic Tudor house open to the public with the most magnificent views. I can't thank my dear departed mum enough for booking my first driving lesson on my 17th birthday.

This post just makes you sound like a wanky pretentious twat to be honest. Stop trying to force everyone to live their life according to your standards. I've got no interest in doing those things you mentioned. It doesn't make you superior.

DaisyWaldron · 28/05/2022 22:18

I've walked and cycled and taken public transport to lovely medieval French villages and stayed up all night watching shooting stars without having set foot in a car first.

Robinni · 28/05/2022 22:21

@GoldfinchTart

I can't imagine the limitations of where you can go when visiting the US or New Zealand or Australia (all places I've driven). Many of the memories that I'll cherish for ever involve driving. Taking a side turning in New Zealand and finding a near-deserted settlement with a glorious, driftwood-strewn beach and a blue lagoon and sitting in the sun enjoying the total peace and serenity of the place. Taking a side-road in France and finding ourselves driving under ancient trees and, at the end, a medieval village and a wonderful lunch. Going to visit friends in the mountains in Southern Spain, where there's no public transport at all, and not feeling as if I was a burden on them. Taking a detour through the Brecon Beacons and stumbling on an historic Tudor house open to the public with the most magnificent views.

You can’t imagine not being enormously privileged.

A lot of people chose to have one car. Or no car. Because they can’t afford it. Or they have to prioritise spending money on other things.

Or because as you’ve said various health problems, anxieties (neighbours), or eco beliefs (friend). That is their business and their choice.

You had the opportunity paid for and presented to you by your mother and have always been wealthy enough by the sounds of it to faff about in the car as you please….. this is not reality for everyone. You are lucky.

When people are struggling to pay for petrol you’re whomping on about wombling around the Brecon Beacons and how apparently - to your mind - essential faffing about in a car for pleasure is…..

Are you for real?!

ManateeFair · 28/05/2022 22:30

Your neighbours were taking the piss asking you to run them into town; they barely know you.

Doesn’t seem that big a deal to me to give a mate or a relative a lift as a favour, occasionally, though. Seems pretty normal to me. And YABU to think anyone ‘should’ drive. If you resent giving a friend a lift once in a blue moon, you’re perfectly at liberty to say no.

Robinni · 28/05/2022 22:30

See that trip to New Zealand even made it into a magazine! Excellent wombling! 🌟

AIBU to be fed-up of non-drivers seeking lifts?