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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to bring dog in supermarket

324 replies

Name2change · 28/05/2022 00:18

I have name changed as I know that most people will be inclined to think that this is ridiculous proposition as its societally unacceptable. I know the cognizant is not to bring them in because they could get out and get into things and cause damage or irritate people with allergens or for hygiene reasons etc etc but surely this applies to dogs who are on leads and being held and not ones in enclosed baby-looking prams that cant get out or get close enough to people to irritate them. I honestly don't see the issue with well behaved dogs who cant bother anyone especially when no one will even know they are there. I saw someone in the supermarket who'd done this a while ago, they bothered no one and ever since I've been thinking that this is something id like to do as I have a hidden disability that is made just that bit more comfortable with my dog just being there but I haven't done it as I'm too ashamed and would be anxious the whole time about being found out! I dont want any "YABU for getting her a pram", its a separate issue, she requires one and I'm not getting into a debate about it. AIBU to go for it or should I leave it well alone and forget about it?

OP posts:
PinkScrunchie · 30/05/2022 15:57

theobligatorynamechange · 30/05/2022 12:55

I have a hidden disability too - an allergy to animal hair - and dogs not being there make my throat not close up.

You feeling that bit more comfortable makes me feel that bit more dead. You're just not talking about one dog - as soon as supermarkets allow your one non-service dog into the shop, they have to allow everyone else's. Can you not see how this would have a severe impact on those of us with allergies?

Service dogs are specially bred and trained to have a minimal impact on the people around them. Your dog, you have admitted, is not one of those dogs.

This is the thing far too many people with emotional support dogs are trying to get them into shops. When shop staff do challenge them the equality and disability act gets trotted out. Rarely do you see properly trained assistance dogs in shops and when you do they get on with doing their job as a assistance aid to their owners.

People like the OP piss me right off. The dog is not trained yet they expect rules to be bent for them without a thought to others who are allergic to animals. Clearly the OP’s needs trump the needs of others. Disgusting behaviour imo just to get their own way. What possible use a dog in a pram can be to anyone is mind boggling.

whowhatwerewhy · 30/05/2022 16:11

I would find shopping less stressful with my dog , she's 50kg and very friendly.
She won't fit in a buggy but could pull one !! Am I allowed my dog too!!
Sorry it's a slippery slope if you let one dog in you can't then discriminated against others

Moonface123 · 30/05/2022 16:11

I work in a supermarket OP and if it were up to me it would be an outstanding yes. Certainly couldnt be any worse than the hostile cold faced miserable buggers we have to put up with on a daily basis. Roll on when it all goes online, thats the way its heading.

riesenrad · 30/05/2022 16:21

Now we've had a case where a cafe refused someone entry with a guide dog. Is it really so difficult for employers and business owners to understand the law?

Guide dogs - get entry.
Pets - do not get entry

AgentProvocateur · 30/05/2022 20:47

PinkScrunchie · 30/05/2022 15:49

Legally you have an emotional support dog NOT an assistance dog and legally the store are allowed to refuse you entry. (iwhich I hope they do). If they do refuse you entry don’t get arsey about it.

No, legally she has a dog.

PinkScrunchie · 30/05/2022 22:53

AgentProvocateur · 30/05/2022 20:47

No, legally she has a dog.

Exactly, a dog which doesn’t actually need to be in shops/other premises as it’s an untrained pet and not an assistance dog.

Notaneffingcockerspaniel · 30/05/2022 23:05

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

Rno3gfr · 30/05/2022 23:13

I took my puppy into the local shop in my arms. I didn’t feel right doing it tbh. I just needed to grab some milk for my toddler, and going home to drop the puppy off first would take me an extra hour (I don’t drive - I was there to take her to the vets and I had to carry her there). I couldn’t leave her outside as she was very young (had separation anxiety) and there have been cases of dog-napping in my area. No one said anything until I went to pay, the cashier raised an eyebrow and said the dog isn’t allowed.

Most people didn’t even notice she was with me because she was ‘sat’ inside my coat, asleep, with just her nose poking out. I felt a bit embarrassed, it was poor judgement on my behalf, I wasn’t sure if it ‘counted’ as she was in my coat. I didn’t plan on doing it, it was sort of spur of the moment, and I wouldn’t again.

HTH1 · 30/05/2022 23:21

Sortilege · 28/05/2022 00:59

At least read the OP.

Also, the dog is female (so, if she weren’t in a pram, would make a puddle on the floor rather than lifting her leg and peeing over the food).

I guess one question would be how likely she is to stay in the pram and not wriggle out and start sniffing/picking up the food if she smelt something tasty!

WiddlinDiddlin · 31/05/2022 04:37

You would have to get permission from the relevant stores - and they have no obligation to give that permission.

It is possible for an owner to train their own dog to be an assistance dog - the dog needs to do some physical tasks though and so being shut in a doggy stroller means they won't fulfill that requirement.

We have no option to have emotional support dogs who do not do a physical task, be given the same rights as assistance dogs who do and I don't think anyone involved in assistance dog related work would seek to change that.

If you feel you'd benefit from your dog being with you and you feel their temperament is suitable, then train your dog to do physical tasks - deep pressure therapy, alerting you that you're heading for a meltdown, picking up dropped items, leading you out of a store if you're clearly not coping - these are all physical tasks.

It does take some time and some skill to train an assistance dog and I would strongly recommend you use a trainer who has experience, and have your dogs skills externally assessed either in person or via video submissions.

It is not true that assistance dogs and their handlers cannot be asked to leave a venue - if the dog is posing a danger to others via its behaviour, if the handler is clearly not in control and the dog not mitigating that in some way, if there is a genuine danger to the dog - as long as some reasonable alternative is provided.

So if you did not train your dog, and then you decided to take them with you and they didn't behave, you could still be asked to leave.

For everyone else reading this thread, there do seem to be some misunderstandings.

An assistance dog does not necessarily need to be provided by a charity, let alone an ADUK reg. charity.

The rights to public access apply to ALL assistance dogs trained to perform physical tasks - not just Guide Dogs, and this includes owner trained dogs.

Assistance dogs do NOT have to wear a jacket/vest declaring themselves as such, though it is recommended they do (this is because unfortunately many AD handlers have suffered discrimination as a result of their dog being identified as an AD).

'In Training' dogs do not have public access rights, however a dog can fulfill the basic access requirements of being safe in public and mitigating some elements of someones disability and therefore be 'qualified' for public access, but still be in training for other elements of their work.

Assistance Dogs are still DOGS and not robots, they will look, occasionally sniff something, they may flinch or startle but should bounce back confidently, they may bark if startled or another dog barks at them but again should bounce back fast. They may also bark, climb on their handlers lap or 'jump up', lead their owner away or out of a building or prevent their owner moving (say crossing a road) as part of their physical tasking.

You may NOT ask what an assistance dog does nor what disability their handler has (in the US the rules are different and you can ask what tasks the dog does).

Someone having an allergy to dogs is not a reason for an assistance dog handler to be denied access - the only exception to this rule is for taxi drivers, who will need to register a medical certificate with their licencing authority.

DinosaurDuvet · 31/05/2022 05:16

I would say no for hygiene reasons and I say this as a dog lover

As for allergies - I’m so allergic to dogs that I’m off the literally more than 100 x off the scale (testing done by my rheumatologist consultant), but passing one would cause zero reactions. I need to be petting one for about a minute or in a room they’ve lived in for a minute or so before breathing difficulties start.

dizzydizzydizzy · 31/05/2022 07:05

TooManyPJs · 28/05/2022 01:46

No dogs should not be allowed in supermarkets. The odd well-trained guide dog, of course. They gave tons of training and numbers are very low - I've literally never seen a guide dog in a supermarket.

If it were free rein there would be all sorts with their untrained and badly controlled dogs in there. It's bad enough when you go for a walk and people don't control their dogs. I don't want to be dealing with that when trying to do a food shop.

This!

Flaxmeadow · 01/06/2022 11:37

WiddlinDiddlin · 31/05/2022 04:37

You would have to get permission from the relevant stores - and they have no obligation to give that permission.

It is possible for an owner to train their own dog to be an assistance dog - the dog needs to do some physical tasks though and so being shut in a doggy stroller means they won't fulfill that requirement.

We have no option to have emotional support dogs who do not do a physical task, be given the same rights as assistance dogs who do and I don't think anyone involved in assistance dog related work would seek to change that.

If you feel you'd benefit from your dog being with you and you feel their temperament is suitable, then train your dog to do physical tasks - deep pressure therapy, alerting you that you're heading for a meltdown, picking up dropped items, leading you out of a store if you're clearly not coping - these are all physical tasks.

It does take some time and some skill to train an assistance dog and I would strongly recommend you use a trainer who has experience, and have your dogs skills externally assessed either in person or via video submissions.

It is not true that assistance dogs and their handlers cannot be asked to leave a venue - if the dog is posing a danger to others via its behaviour, if the handler is clearly not in control and the dog not mitigating that in some way, if there is a genuine danger to the dog - as long as some reasonable alternative is provided.

So if you did not train your dog, and then you decided to take them with you and they didn't behave, you could still be asked to leave.

For everyone else reading this thread, there do seem to be some misunderstandings.

An assistance dog does not necessarily need to be provided by a charity, let alone an ADUK reg. charity.

The rights to public access apply to ALL assistance dogs trained to perform physical tasks - not just Guide Dogs, and this includes owner trained dogs.

Assistance dogs do NOT have to wear a jacket/vest declaring themselves as such, though it is recommended they do (this is because unfortunately many AD handlers have suffered discrimination as a result of their dog being identified as an AD).

'In Training' dogs do not have public access rights, however a dog can fulfill the basic access requirements of being safe in public and mitigating some elements of someones disability and therefore be 'qualified' for public access, but still be in training for other elements of their work.

Assistance Dogs are still DOGS and not robots, they will look, occasionally sniff something, they may flinch or startle but should bounce back confidently, they may bark if startled or another dog barks at them but again should bounce back fast. They may also bark, climb on their handlers lap or 'jump up', lead their owner away or out of a building or prevent their owner moving (say crossing a road) as part of their physical tasking.

You may NOT ask what an assistance dog does nor what disability their handler has (in the US the rules are different and you can ask what tasks the dog does).

Someone having an allergy to dogs is not a reason for an assistance dog handler to be denied access - the only exception to this rule is for taxi drivers, who will need to register a medical certificate with their licencing authority.

Ive read this 3 times and i still don't understand it.

Yes we get that guide dogs are used to navigate a visually impaired person around places. No one has an objection to this and guide dogs are being phased out by electronic gadgets now anyway.

Apart from that, can someone explain to me what 'assistance,' a dog provides in a supermarket? Or what 'emotional support' a dog provides? How exactly? Does it talk to the owner in reassuringly in soothing tones? No. Does it help with the trolley? No. Does it open doors, does it lift items from shelves and pop them in the trolley? Does it say "hey look, this coffee is on offer today, you can save £2 if you buy a large jar of it"

Stroopwaffels · 01/06/2022 11:53

I think what she means is that an assistance dog is trained for specific tasks - alerting an owner to a ringing phone, guiding them around objects, taking washing out of the machine and placing it in a basket.

A "emotional support" animal is untrained and does not perform any special tasks, the owner just quite likes it being around. And it's this second category which many of us object to.

Flaxmeadow · 01/06/2022 12:10

Apart from a guide dog, I still don't understand why you would need a dog in a supermarket. Whether it's an emotional support dog or an assistance dog.

Lets be honest about this, many dog owners want to be able to take their dogs everywhere and they will use every trick in the book to achieve it. Soon there will be nowhere anyone can go without dogs being there. Its almost like that now.

Dogs are regularly in a fenced off childrens play area near where I live, they get away with ignoring the huge 'no dogs' signs because no one at the council responds to complaints.

Allegic to dogs? Tough, you don't matter. Scared of dogs, the same. Worried about dog attacks? You're being unreasonable because their cute fur baby rottweiler or bull type dog would never attack anyone. Sick of dog mess everywhere? Put up with it

Stroopwaffels · 01/06/2022 12:13

Totally agree.

Many dog owners are utterly besotted with their pets and can't understand why the rest of us don't feel the same about their animals.

WiddlinDiddlin · 01/06/2022 17:37

Flaxmeadow · 01/06/2022 11:37

Ive read this 3 times and i still don't understand it.

Yes we get that guide dogs are used to navigate a visually impaired person around places. No one has an objection to this and guide dogs are being phased out by electronic gadgets now anyway.

Apart from that, can someone explain to me what 'assistance,' a dog provides in a supermarket? Or what 'emotional support' a dog provides? How exactly? Does it talk to the owner in reassuringly in soothing tones? No. Does it help with the trolley? No. Does it open doors, does it lift items from shelves and pop them in the trolley? Does it say "hey look, this coffee is on offer today, you can save £2 if you buy a large jar of it"

Emotional support dogs - basically make their owner feel better because they're there.

Which is not recognised as mitigating a disability.

Assistance dogs - task based mitigation of disability.

For example: Leading someone out of a premises before they have a fit/episode; blocking or leading out from an area where an allergen is present; Stopping someone from crossing a road because they're about to faint; alerting someone that they need to sit down because they're about to faint; alerting someone that they're about to or are having a hypo; alerting someone that their bg is too high; picking up dropped items that the person cannot bend/reach; taking items from the person and handing them to someone else, for example a wallet, handed to a cashier; activating door open/close buttons; activating traffic crossing buttons; opening doors; giving a manual wheelchair an extra tug or counterbalance weight to go up a kerb-cut; alerting a deaf person to alarms or other sounds;

As an example, my friends Mini Poodle tells her about BG levels, indicates if she's having a bleed (she bleeds randomly and can't always tell if she's sprung a leak which may be minor or may be serious), will pick up indicated items from floor or lower shelves - she also has tasks she does indoors at home.

My dog tells me about my BG because I can have symptomless hypos, he hits door buttons and picks up the stuff I drop, he can also counterbalance my wheelchair for things like kerb-cuts where I need to have three hands and don't.

The list goes on and on really, the number of things dogs can do is astonishing.

Sometimes however a dog needs to accompany someone to somewhere simply because that's where they're going - if I am going to three places in a trip out I may not need my dog in one of them, but it wouldn't be practical to make separate trips so he can stay at home for the place I don't need him, and leaving dogs outside stores unaccompanied isn't safe or sensible, nor is leaving a dog in a car.

BTW - Guide dogs for the blind are absolutely not being 'phased out' at all, I don't know where you got that idea. Technology is advancing and there are more solutions out there for those who do not want a dog, or those who cannot have a dog, or those who want assistance but the wait for a dog is very long, or they're between dogs.

Giraffesandbottoms · 01/06/2022 18:16

What hidden disability requires a dog in a supermarket?

Andromachehadabadday · 01/06/2022 18:21

Giraffesandbottoms · 01/06/2022 18:16

What hidden disability requires a dog in a supermarket?

My first guess would be diabetes

QuebecBagnet · 01/06/2022 18:39

Also coeliac disease. You can train dogs to be gluten detecting dogs. Would be good in a supermarket.

Dogs can assist deaf people, alert to seizures, so someone with epilepsy or POTs could have one.

Giraffesandbottoms · 01/06/2022 18:42

@Andromachehadabadday

what does a dog do for diabetes?

@QuebecBagnet

is the gluten thing a joke? Wouldn’t they just bark at everything?!

are diabetes and coeliac disease considered disabilities?!

QuebecBagnet · 01/06/2022 19:04

No. It’s not a joke. They alert to foods containing gluten only.

a dog trained for diabetes will alert an owner that they’re about to have a hypo, before the person actually feels unwell. So gives them time to sort their blood sugars out.

diabetes is counted as a disability under the equality act. Don’t think coeliac disease is but in the USA gluten dogs are accepted and allowed in places. Don’t think they’re used here yet, they cost 20k to buy a fully trained dog. Dd wants one! 😆

Andromachehadabadday · 01/06/2022 19:17

Giraffesandbottoms · 01/06/2022 18:42

@Andromachehadabadday

what does a dog do for diabetes?

@QuebecBagnet

is the gluten thing a joke? Wouldn’t they just bark at everything?!

are diabetes and coeliac disease considered disabilities?!

i mean a Google will show you there’s assistance dogs for all sorts. They can sense glucose levels, bring the medication when their owner needs it. Not everyone gets really obvious symptoms before it’s to late. There’s some dogs that can sense an epileptic fit coming on.

Yes diabetes can be a disability. Some people live with it unimpacted day to day. Many do not and it really impacts their lives, every single day

You may need to look up the definition of disability in the UK.

Giraffesandbottoms · 01/06/2022 19:17

@QuebecBagnet

thank you for answering me and not being snippy. My cousin is diabetic (has been his whole life) and I really had no idea that it counted as a disability!

im not sure about the gluten free dog though, I mean can’t someone just read or find out?! For 20k it doesn’t seem worth it 😳

TonyBlairsLover · 01/06/2022 19:28

Yabu just leave it outside