DH doesn't understand, I mean really 'undertand' the issues women face

[RingRingRed]

Just that really.

DH is a good person, and tries to understand but after another argument tonight I realised he just doesn't get the issues facing women.

I'm so fucked off because we have 2 DD but because they're young, the reality of how shit life is for females hasn't really struck.

He absolutely adores DD's and I'm dreading the BF stage.

He sees me as very fiesty but when I try to share my lived experience, he only sees how I don't 'take shit' now. In my 40s.

AIBU to be SO disappointed in DH

• [post edited at OP's request to remove sensitive detail]

Fish don't see the water. The world has been made for him so of course he can't. Wait until they're teenagers and he magically discovers how fucking awful his fellow men can be.

Sorry OP - I’m not quite sure what you’re getting at…

What was the argument about?

This!

A part of me wants to almost warn him, hey I know these are your DD but you're the only male who gives a shit.

Thank you @MrsTerryPratchett that's exactly it.

DH is a good guy, and doesn't recognise this terrible behaviour from MOST males that his DD will be subject too and doesn't seem to believe my lived experience of this shit behaviour.

I don't really understand many issues - how can I if I don't live them/have experienced them? I don't know what it's like to be a man because I have never been one - how should he know what women really go through?

About the sort of shit women have to put up with.

What did you argue about?

It’s a very, very rare man who really does get it properly. Most of them are completely blind to the shitty behaviour of men even when it’s in front of their face. And they usually think we’re exaggerating.

I may be naive but isn’t this the same as saying I cannot fully understand racism as being white, I am not subjected to it? I obviously see some blatant racism but I mean the subtle constant stuff that I read about but just don’t experience.

They never 'see' the shit we deal with because a lot of the worst of it isn't done when other people are around.

Or it's just a bit of fun. Or we should be flattered. Or we can't take a joke. Or it mean he likes us. Or we're angry feminists. Or we're strident. Or we're bossy. Or we're unnatural. Or we're whiny women who just can't take it in the real world.

Repeat ad nauseam.

But do we ever truly understand a situation we aren’t in? Yes we can have empathy, but the phrase ‘don’t criticise until youve walked a mile in their shoes’ springs to mind.
I do get that it’s disappointing and frustrating.

What’s particularly shit about yours and your daughters’ lives?

Show him this, and explain how it’d be different if you were male.

Maybe show him the suicide statistics, deaths at work, university entry numbers, life expectancy, the way women suffered worse in COVID, the way men are favoured in child custody, and so on. Show how women have until very recently had to retire later than men.

The facts are out there, they are unarguable, you just need to take him through them.

I had a work engineer that I had booked, in an account in my name, who only dealt with ME on the phone actually turn his back on me and address my husband to tell us how the new meter worked.

My husband didn't even notice.

I was livid.

I have to agree with this. My dh is a good one, and we have had many discussions around this and it's only then that he is able to see certain things from my perspective. And that it fair enough. We are also surrounded by a good line of males - family, friends and other close males. I also struggle at times to see past this.

By listening, instead if arguing by default?

Yes he can listen but he does not have to agree.

DH is good at this one. In a car dealership he actually said to the saleman, "mate there is no point you talking to me, she's making all the decisions and I know nothing about cars". The man continued to talk to him. We didn't buy from him. We bought from the place where the salesman found his manager to answer my technical questions while he spoke to DH about paint colours and seat leather.

That.

Mumsnet is full of unempathetic responses from posters who don't have the imagination to put themselves in someone else's shoes, and often they're not even prepared to try. Yet they expect others to empathise with them.

If someone asks me to understand what they're going through (whatever the subject, be it work, health or relationship based) with the best will in the world, there are limits to how much I can really understand and feel it. I'll try to imagine it, but if I haven't lived it, how can I really get it? Likewise I don't expect people to understand what it's like to go through some experiences that I've had to endure, and I'm glad for them that they can't, to be honest.

I maintain that there are downsides to being male, but I've never had to experience then or feel them. I can try to understand, but I will often fail because I'm not a man.

I'm a grandparent. I often read posts here where mums clearly cannot understand how most grandparents feel about their grandchildren. And nor could I when my kids were young.

That's just an example. We can't fully feel or understand what we haven't experienced. We can only try.

the reality of how shit life is for females hasn't really struck.

It hasn’t struck me either and I’ve been one for nearly five decades.

No one says he has to agree. Interesting that you don't say he 'should' listen.

I had a work engineer that I had booked, in an account in my name, who only dealt with ME on the phone actually turn his back on me and address my husband to tell us how the new meter worked.

My husband didn't even notice

^^

See, that's the problem. They're so used to it, they don't even notice!

Yes he can listen but he does not have to agree.

Agree that what his wife says happened to her happened? Because I wouldn't be in a relationship with someone who thought I was a liar.

DD at 11 yo is the same age as I was when street harassment started. 11. And it was all men. All different men.

I don't think men can really understand it.

I'm mixed-race and I don't think white people can truly understand what racism is like.

I don't ask them to understand these things like I do. But I do ask them to acknowledge that they don't understand them. What they need to understand is that their experiences limit their understanding. And then I expect them to do the reading and do the listening to understand as best they can and then to act accordingly in solidarity with us.

That last bit is what a lot of men, white people and straight people struggle with when it comes to feminism, racism and LGBT issues. They are not going to be the authority in the room on these subjects and that's fine, but they need to realise THAT.

That has happened to me before and dh asked them to address me. This is probably one rare instance on the whole. I'm definitely in the not all men camp, because in my experiences it is not all men.

Of course you can put yourself in someone's else's shoes if you listen.

You don't have to understand every nuance or feeling but it is possible to understand.