DH doesn't understand, I mean really 'undertand' the issues women face

[RingRingRed]

Just that really.

DH is a good person, and tries to understand but after another argument tonight I realised he just doesn't get the issues facing women.

I'm so fucked off because we have 2 DD but because they're young, the reality of how shit life is for females hasn't really struck.

He absolutely adores DD's and I'm dreading the BF stage.

He sees me as very fiesty but when I try to share my lived experience, he only sees how I don't 'take shit' now. In my 40s.

AIBU to be SO disappointed in DH

• [post edited at OP's request to remove sensitive detail]

I think it's unusual if they do.

I'm a single parent and my son has no contact with his dad. He went through a period (when he was about 14) where he'd watch very right wing American YouTubers spouting stuff about gender pay gap being a hoax etc

He's now 21 and has seen how some of his fellow males behave. He's known girls with physically abusive boyfriends and known girls who have had drinks spiked or been sexually assaulted. Ofc he doesn't truly understand but at least he's long left that stage when he was 14 and truly believed that women had equality and feminism was about subjugating men.

He will be shocked as your dd get older and they talk about what they experience, see and hear especially if he went to boys schools or has no sisters.

I wasn't referred to ops specific incidents, I just meant in general. You may feel the way you do, because of your experiences with your dd. Not everyone would have had experiences to have such a strong opinion, it doesn't mean that they must be disbelieved.

How many women 'really' understand what men go through though? Surely it cuts both ways except that men don't seem to have as many to advocate for them as women have.

I'm a woman and don't feel my life is shit at all. I love being a women. I can see how life can be shit for some women. Of course I see that. I can also see how life can be shit for men too - they face different pressures and problems to women but life isn't a bed of roses for them either - just look at male suicide rates to see how many men don't cope with life. Maybe your DH will gain more understanding as your daughters grow up. How can he really understand what it's like to be a woman? I don't understand what it's like to be a man, or gay, or old or disabled etc etc.

My DH is a good man too, he is definitely not sexist in any way, but I don’t think he deeply understands the issues women face. But how can he truly do that?

I would like to think I have an understanding of challenges faced by other disadvantaged groups I am not a member of, but I would not be that surprised if a member of one of those groups told me that I did not really understand as I had not lived it.

Same. What specific issues are you talking about? I can think of some like harassment in schools. My life as a grown woman isn't shit though, not for anything related to my sex anyway

Of course he doesn't fully understand.

I don't fully understand what difficulties black women face, or gay people, or those who are wheelchair bound. How could I?

I'd have said the same until last week when I had my first job interview with a middle aged man who knows I have children.

Maybe he rightly understands that for an awful lot if woman life isn’t shit, especially if they live in the UK, and that for many whose life is shit it has nothing to do with their sex.

How many women 'really' understand what men go through though? Surely it cuts both ways except that men don't seem to have as many to advocate for them as women have.

Utter bollocks. I've worked with vulnerable people, both sexes, for more than three decades. Guess what the staff make-up was in both cases. Yup, majority women. Wiping arses to psychology. Mostly women.

Women advocate for men, I certainly have. Oddly when you advocate for men's MH services, men's trauma counselling, men's housing, not one person ever says 'what about women'. Not once. They do all the time when you ask for women's services. Particularly men who have no intention of ever lowering themselves to work in one of these services.

It depends.

No one can truly understand what it's like to be in a demographic. As much as I try and educate and empathise with various struggles, I'll never truly understand what it's like to be black, or disabled for example.

If he acknowledges that, and listens to you as someone who has lived that experience and recognises then that's ok.

If he tries to argue against it, and downplays your experiences because of his experience of something totally different then that's not ok. Eg if you say you've been groped by a million men in bars while their entire group of friends laugh about it, and he says you must have just been unlucky because he doesn't know any men that would act like that (ie saying men are better than how you've experienced men to be) then yes I think that's annoying. A better answer would be 'because i don't act like that, I've never really looked out for it or realised it was that bad' type thing rather than invalidating your lived experience

I'm female and my life isn't now, and never has been, shit because i'm female. I feel confident saying the same thing about my adult DD and my female friends. SOME women face issues because of their sex. But you can't generalise.

Who advocates for women? In a country where 97% of murderers are men? In a world where only 1.6% of rapists are charged?

In a country* where only 1.6% of rapists are charged?

MN really needs a facepalm emoji

Same here to an extent. When I read Laura Bate's book about everyday sexism I thought she'd been sexually harassed in one journey to work than I had been in my entire life!

Although when you look back you realise that problems you've had in your work life might not have happened if you had been male. As a pp said "too bossy". Too assertive. Too everything that would be fine if you were male.

If the husband is dismissive over particular experiences that the OP faced then I can totally understand. If it's just a general 'not living her experience' then yes I don't think that's quite as fair.

Imo some men don’t want to “see” it because it means they’ll have to try to do something about it and they can’t be arsed!

When we met DH didn’t have a clue, he was bright up in a farming family with a brother, so a very traditional way of life. We’ve been married a long time and he “got” things as soon as I pointed them out! He actively calls out men who behave in a sexist way and this includes in his work life, it’s not easy doing it and he’s constantly surprised and angry about the shit women have to put up with.

Until Men join in and actively call this nonsense out, it will keep on happening.

DH is a good person, and tries to understand

And that's really as much as is reasonable to expect from anyone who hasn't had the same lived experience as the person talking to them.

DH doesn't either. I have to explain. It is frustrating.

As for this " some women face issues because of their sex" I disagree. I don't think there is a woman who hasn't carried her keys in her hand, or taken a more brightly lit road, or avoided walking in a lonely area, or texted a friend to make sure they got home safe after taking a cab late. And that's just the obvious stuff, not the everyday and more insidious sexism.

Advocate for men? The entire world is designed for men.

That’s exactly what I meant by them not noticing when it happens right under their noses. And this is a very typical experience.
They also have no idea how demeaning this feels.
Yes, some men’s eyes open when something as blatant as this happens and some will call it out, but that’s relatively unusual. Most have the incurable condition of Sexism Blindness. Some see it and find it funny!

To be honest I think women who don't think their lives are affected by being a woman are kidding themselves. I've never been attacked - yet, thankfully, touch wood - but I've also spent my whole life mitigating my chances of being attacked by moderating my behaviour.

DH would think nothing of walking home at 2am but there's not a cat in hells chance I would.

So even if I haven't been the victim of an attack. I have had my freedoms curtailed (by myself admittedly) in an attempt to avoid being a victim.

Imo some men don’t want to “see” it because it means they’ll have to try to do something about it and they can’t be arsed

I think it's more a case of some people don't waste time thinking about things they can't change. Others like to complain (in their own head and publicly) about the ways in which their demographic is victimised, because (apparently) they get something out of feeling angry.

My dad doesn't always get it but after a conversation he did

I asked if he would walk home from the pub at the end of my road at 10pm, of course he said
Then I asked what if I said I was walking home from the pub at 10pm, he said he would rather I got a taxi
Then I said well is that much safer given the taxi drivers that have assaulted women. He said hmm well you would ring the police if that happened of course and they would come out
I asked how safe that was after Sarah Everard and he went silent

I actually came on to post that there will be plenty of female posters on MN who do not share your own lived experience or understand where you come from. The female experience is not universal. It's shitter than men, but not universally so.