DH doesn't understand, I mean really 'undertand' the issues women face

[RingRingRed]

Just that really.

DH is a good person, and tries to understand but after another argument tonight I realised he just doesn't get the issues facing women.

I'm so fucked off because we have 2 DD but because they're young, the reality of how shit life is for females hasn't really struck.

He absolutely adores DD's and I'm dreading the BF stage.

He sees me as very fiesty but when I try to share my lived experience, he only sees how I don't 'take shit' now. In my 40s.

AIBU to be SO disappointed in DH

• [post edited at OP's request to remove sensitive detail]

I’m Black and female. My fiancé’ is neither of these things. He’s pretty much the poster boy for straight white upper middle class privilege.

However, he’s also not a self centred arsehole, so he put in the work. He LISTENS to people. Actually listens and tries to understand what they’re saying. He does the reading - it’s 2022, there’s a huge amount of information available about race, class, gender, sexual orientation and intersectionality. He pays attention to the world around him. He’s not particularly ‘woke’, but he’s interested, knowledgeable and empathetic. To be honest, most people I know are.

It’s possible and it’s not particularly hard. However, it requires effort. As a lot of people are - to be blunt - selfish, lazy and parochial, they are unwilling to make that effort. So they go with some combination of hand wringing, incomprehension and anger about the status quo being challenged.

Don't fool yourself into thinking most of the judgement is not from women.

The street harassment I got aged 11-15, usually in school uniform, was the worst I've ever had.

Flashing, wanking at me, following me, blocking my way, comments, gestures
It was relentless.

It was also bad when i was heavily pregnant..a lot of men just really really hate women and girls.

Doesn't matter. The point is patriarchy-and yes, that can be upheld by women too - has us convinced that Nicole Kidman has to slice her face open to be attractive while Hugh Grant can look like her father and still get a role as her husband.

What about exactly? Is it about porn? It's a huge issue, but it's one only facing the younger generation to the extent it is. I had absolutely no idea until I got with my husband, who is younger. The porn addiction among him and his friends caused serious psychological and physical damage. He wanted to get out of it, and he has, but it's the tip of an iceberg.

At 40 I can't actually get my head around it but because I know people in a slightly younger generation, I've been exposed to what is expected of women by men mid-twenties, it's horrific.

It could be a big part of why girls are identifying out of being female as well.

But had I not got with someone younger I'm not sure I would have seen the damage it's doing.

I’ve really enjoyed being a woman. I feel sorry for men.

What exactly doesn't he see? You mean he doesn't realised they'll be harassed etc?

It's denial about what their sex is like.

I am always concerned when someone sees me as "feisty". IME it means they are seeing something they wouldn't even notice in a man.

I would have a tough time dealing with that. I am notoriously single because I can't handle a partner being unable or unwilling to imagine what my life is like and yet still expects me to do the same for him. A partnership for me would mean mutual emotional support. I could never properly love someone who is unable to provide that.

Like the other person I don't know what you mean. It's very vague.

Pervy men?

I don't know any women who have been held back career-wise to be fair.

What an odd tangent. So, when thinking about the inequities and disadvantages women face, the first thing you think about is…porn?

Did you correct him?

I can see why that’s annoying. But at the other end of the spectrum I find nothing more irritating than fathers of daughters who suddenly get really vocal about women’s rights after having kids. They’re usually the ones who were outrageous misogynists before having children but having daughters makes them realise women are actually human after all, or the ones related to them are. The kind who post on social media things like ‘I just want my daughters to be able to walk home safely’. How about wanting all women to be able to walk home safely, not just the ones you ‘own’?

So what exactly was he arguing?

That you were making up the narrative of your lived experience? Exaggerating? Inventing issues where a reasonable bloke would have just shrugged?

I think you need to address with him the subject of the rape of his sister.

What does he understand of rape?
What sort of man rapes?
Are there many men like that out there?
How can women identify them?
Can woman make themselves rape-proof?
Does he believe woman make false allegations of rape and if so why?

What does he think of incels?
Are men entitled to sex?
Would he feel comfortable being hit on by men in a gay bar?

Questions, questions ..

I think you can find out a lot about a man if you ask him questions about rape.

Do not think for a second that white people do not experience racism.

I share your sentiment. My feelings are based on my experiences. I have grown up and even now surrounded by a good group of males. Career wise I haven't been affected in fact it has been in my favor being a woman. This is however in no way taking away from all those that have experienced horrific things by men. My experience may also be skewed in that I grew up in a country where my dh would also think twice about walking out at night or many of the things women there faced with. You were not in a better position being a man even though many acts were committed by men. It's almost as though there were two groups of men, the geoup of men who had the same fears as the women and the other group who were committing them. Maybe that's also contributing to my namalt opinion.

@Soubriquet, so he doesn't think you should walk alone at night but he still can't understand why your initial approach to all men is suspicion? This is a massive failure of joined on thinking on his part.

Have you ever considered the bowl of smarties test? Ask him to pick out the poison one in a bowl. (There doesn't have to be a poisoned smartie in the bowl).

Has not struck me either and I had a career in a job normally done by men.

I definitely have not had a shit life, nor have my friends. Things have been tough sometimes but never because I am female.

How can I truly understand the crap anyone else puts up with, whether they be male, disabled, child, elderly, learning-disabled... presumably I have issues they wouldn't grasp, either.

But would you deny stuff that happens to them when they tell you about it and tell them they're exaggerating rather than believing them?

Yes, I agree with this and I don't think this is the solution. I don't know what the solution is.

I am baffled by the feeling sorry for men comments- on a board for women no less- and the comments about knowing no women who have been held back in their careers, so should just leave this thread as my experience is so vastly different.

Do not think for a second that white people do not experience racism.

That didn't take long.

l can't relate to all this females are victims, its a really unhealthy message, l love being a woman l don't feel limited or restricted in any way because of it.
Its interesting that not once on here is there any discussion as to why so many women on here feel very unhappy about having a son, so many seem very disapointed on the just found out sex/ gender of baby, (is that not prejudice)or why we have one of the highest suicide rates in the world for young men, ( who apparently have it all according to some) that seems to get convieniantly swept under the carpet. Its seems quite trendy on here to name , shame and blame all men for everything.
As a mum who has raised two sons alone, l have seen a very different side of the coin, but that is something l dont expect a mother of only daughters to understand, and thats ok.

I can totally see how he wouldn't understand at depth and at the true core of the issues women face. There's a dearth between empathy, listening and acknowledging and truly understanding and many, indeed most men, just won't get it.

I don't think anyone is saying that these issues women are facing don't exist? They are saying it has not been their experience and therefore they don't lump all men in one group of being this awful species.

You can love being a woman and still acknowledge that there is systemic prejudice against women across the world, and yes, even in the UK, particularly for brown and black women. The mild disappointment about having a son is nothing compared to the fact that women in some communities are still being pressured to abort female children, to mutilate them, to marry them off against their will, to mistreat them in a myriad ways. There is nothing trendy about saying this.

Male violence is a scourge which hurts both men and women, but women most. Nothing wrong in saying this either, 2 days after an incel enabled by other men has just slaughtered 19 children in the richest country in the world.