Every household?????

[Trainfromredhill]

So, the chancellor is going to give every household £400 for heating. Surely there should be a cut off of household income? The Beckhams, Elton John, james Dyson, Harry styles…….they all get the money too? . I say this as someone in the fortunate position of not needing the £400- I’d much rather it went to someone who does need it.Just seems a huge waste of public money to give it to everyone

Understand where you're coming from OP, but we all have difference circumstances and the logistical problem of the government trying to work out the exact amount that people really can't be struggling is hard.

Just hope anything who genuinely doesn't need it or would rather it goes to a household really struggling, feel they can donate it to a charity or by food for the a food bank. My friend is well off and gave her children the challenge of considering what people using the foodbank really needed and chosing a bagful of food each to donate, which she paid for. She reckons she'll be doing it again with the latest rebate.

I don’t begrudge it going to everyone. It’s fair. There are additional payments to those most in need.

if you don’t need it and you wish it could go to someone more needy, then pass it on.

Anyway 30k is not a low household income. It's around average. Most people manage perfectly well on that sort of amount.

No. 30k is an average salary, not an average household. Many households will have two people earning that.

If its so easy to manage on 30k why are people with kids with a household income of 30k getting universal credit? The answer is because its not enough money these days as housing costs a fortune!

No one is saying 100k household is poor. But they aren't rolling in it once you factor in childcare and housing. Comfortable I'm sure, but 100k for say a family of 4 is not rich these days

it is being given as a credit on fuel bills not paid into bank accounts so will benefit whoever it is who usually pays the fuel bills in the household. The increases linked to benefits will be paid to whoever usually gets the benefits. Who it goes to will depend on your household set up. In my household I pay the bills (dh pays mortgage) and I take receipt of ds’s dla so I’ll get his £150 too, i am female. I understand financial abuse will mainly be against females but I think that’s a whole bigger issue they can’t tackle with this mass roll out, they’d have to interview every household in the country and then prob end up still making the wrong decision

Private rented at 700 a month (nice area in north west 3 bed with garden and garage). Have savings of few months salary. Have workplace pensions. 1 old car. Nursery cost 36 pounds a day for 1 child (preschool) and private nursery 50 pounds a day for the younger one. They go 2 days each. No family childcare help. I work quite a bit in the evenings which I guess is a downside. We haven't had many holidays recently due to kids and COVID. Don't spend much on clothes haircuts make up consumer goods, furniture is all second hand cheap or free. Kids stuff mostly second hand. Second hand phones on five pounds a month contract. No TV subscriptions. Never go into debt for anything so no interest to pay off. We like nice food so spend 100 per week plus the odd meal out. Lots of cafes. Drink normal amounts of alcohol. Luckily we signed up for a fixed rate energy tarriff until 2024 so hoping not too badly affected by increases there, but that would be a concern otherwise.

I guess it depends where you live. Where we are, nice suburban area in the north west, housing costs are not too bad and certainly affordable for households with 2 working adults even if they are on min wage.

Median UK household income in 2021 was 31k

Median UK household income in 2021 was 31k

I'm certain that is an average salary across the UK. Not an average household income

I stand by my point. If it is enough to live on why do people get universal credit top up on 30k? It isn't enough.

Isn’t it nice that sometimes those paying the most tax get something back very occasionally?

This. 100%.

I think they should be using the money to reduce the standing charge (which disproportionately affects those who try to limit their energy use) and provide support to insulate homes.

The standing charge increase is awful and we are all paying for the failed energy companies because ofgem and the government didn't put rules or checks in place that the energy companies could meet their commitments.

They could also reduce the green levies (environmental and social levy that helps pay for the warm home scheme as well as paying for green initiatives such as insulation) on bills and shift those costs back to the oil and gas companies rather than the consumer.

The oil and gas companies should permanently have extra tax on oil and gas profits that they could mitigate with super tax reliefs for investments in green energy.

@Hhoney no, you're really not. There are so may people in a totally different bracket than you are. For example, between my husband and myself our income is less than £25k a year. We literally get no help and are massively struggling. I know lots of families in similar positions. £100k per year does not class as struggling. You honestly don't know how lucky you are.

This is bribery money and I strongly oppose why this government is doing what it is doing. I genuinely believe that we have never seen such a badly behaved government and that, as a result of their attitude to all forms of decency, they remain the biggest threat to the country and democracy. That giving money to distract from their utter corrupt and reprehensible behaviour is just playing the only tune they know: that it is ok to give (or take) money in return for a blind eye.

That said, there are a millions different ways people can, do and are struggling with the cost of living. I don't know them or their circumstances and I cannot find it in me to begrudge them £400 (or £300). If it is genuinely surplus to their need, it'll find it's way back into 'the system' anyway because they will spend it.

What's the figure? Something like, for every £1 the government gives, it gets back 75p eventually through various taxes - as that money passes through various hands.

Plus, it's funded by a windfall tax: the windfall having been created by everyone paying more for their energy. So, in this specific case, it does not seem unfair that everyone gets some of that profit back.

Not everyone does.

Agree that the logistics, cost and political debate around linking to income would be so complex and costly that it’s most likely not worth it.

Also agree that those who don’t need it should consider passing it on. We are in the hugely fortunate position of not needing it so will make an equivalent donation to charities most likely to help those struggling in the current situation (ie food bank, Mind etc).

We have 2 lots of friends with holiday homes. Will they be donating their extra money to charity? I very much doubt it! Do they need the extra £400? No.

Corbyn policies on steroids.
He even gets the blame for this new Conservative party policy which is nothing to do with him! How do people know he would have done this? They might have only given it to the ones receiving benefits and not the one off payment towards every household and that would have been wrong too I suppose?

Could you imagine the uproar ? All relative anyway as they are not in power and the LP did want a windfall tax which was voted down originally only the other week , so it's not that popular with some tory MPs either or some voters if you read the daily mail comments pages!
They also held back this news till after the Sue Gray report as well, a cynical move to detract from all that.

We are a pensioner couple, non tax payers now, our income is not far above Pensioner Credit level, because I scrimped on fairly low wages to build an extra pension. I thought I was being responsible, but if I hadn’t bothered, means testing would mean we’d not be much worse off. Our savings are dwindling. I’m grateful for the £400 discount on fuel, and the £300 pensioner payment.

Pensioners don’t just fall into two camps, rich and poor, there are lots somewhere in the middle. Unlike those of working age, we have few options to increase our incomes.

It will be cheaper to do it this way. It’s generally far less expensive to run a universal system than one with conditions within it.

If you don’t need it and don’t think it’s fair that you get it, I’m sure a local charity (maybe a food bank) would be delighted to receive a £400 donation from your family.

Correct me if I am wrong, but actually no-one is really getting anything. The money we are 'getting' is coming from the windfall tax that is being put on the companies, so all that is happening is that the companies are paying the tax, only to get it back via us being given a tiny amount each off our bills?

The people who are fortunate enough to know that this money won’t make a difference to them are taxpayers, and so why shouldn’t they get their share?

If they don’t need the money they will probably give it to charity, or invest it, or they’ll spend it. Whatever they do it will come back into the economy so the only reason to begrudge it it jealousy.

It bugs me when the government keep repeating that they’re helping ‘those who need it most’ when the people who don’t need it ‘most’ are still struggling and still deserve to be considered and helped by their government.

Or is that too simplistic?

@coffeecupsandfairylights those with kids do.

I am surprised at the 400 for everyone.
It is a sweetener and yes many don't need it or won't give it away or whatever , but we will all feel the effects of higher bills on other things regardless. Plus it'll be sitting in energy bank accounts earning them interest! Not my own bank !!
Only 5bil is the windfall part , the other 10 bil is from the government. It is astonishing coming from a government that normally prefers austerity and cutbacks and less borrowing

As @Morph22010 correctly pointed out, its money paid to your energy account.
But yes, its a bribe and diversion from Partygate.

I'd rather this money went towards the multitude of issues this country faces instead of to millions of households that are relatively well off.

Sorry but living to your means doesn't alter the fact that £100k is a lot of money.

I bring in six figures and am comfortable. Perhaps it's because I grew up poor but am definitely not scrimping and scraping. Yes we have the trappings of this kind of income but don't go without and actually save quite a lot of money too.

Living over your means would result in scrimping and scraping. I assume this is what's happening here.

We’re on a combined income of just over £100k.

Mortgage £1900 (normal sized family home). Council tax £300. Energy just doubled to £250. Other combined bills and food for four of us, plus sending money to DS at Uni, means very very little left over.

Yes we’re not living in penury and do have comfortable lives but it’s not a champagne lifestyle and we do have to watch every penny.

It’s weird when people tout £100k as the rich. Fwiw I only earn £27k and I work 60hr weeks under a lot of stress for that.

I’m very grateful for the help and certainly won’t be donating it to charity.