Every household?????

[Trainfromredhill]

So, the chancellor is going to give every household £400 for heating. Surely there should be a cut off of household income? The Beckhams, Elton John, james Dyson, Harry styles…….they all get the money too? . I say this as someone in the fortunate position of not needing the £400- I’d much rather it went to someone who does need it.Just seems a huge waste of public money to give it to everyone

I don't want Ed Sheeran to be sent £400 to heat his swimming pool either but don't be rude to me just because I'm explaining how this works to people (like you) who don't know

You don't know what i do or have done, so less of the high n mighty! esp as you've explained nothing, only your own prejudice.

But the point is, the benefits system is well versed in handing out additional monies to the less well off... as well you should know, from CB, to winter heating allowance and HB.

There are millions who aren't Ed Sheeran or Richi Sunak, who don't need £400 from the tax payer, this is 10 billion of money that is being added to the balance sheet for no good reason.

Too many well off folk just want to get their hands on free money.

But the £400 will be taken off your energy bill - as was the case with the £200 previously mooted. The only difference is that we’ll benefit from the rebate being more, and not having to pay it back.

The answer to not being on a minimum wage is always to work harder/train yourself up etc but these jobs need doing by somebody.

If everyone woke up tomorrow with the skills to be a brain surgeon we would be in deep trouble. On the face of it we would have an extremely intelligent skilled workforce but also a nation of people who would be unwilling to work in shops, be carers, be delivery drivers, be cleaners, work in childcare etc. They would all say they are brain surgeons and why should they be the one to do the minimum wage jobs.

Everyone on minimum wage would love to be paid more and put more tax into the system. It is not a choice to earn minimum wage. No one turns down a pay rise.

The benefits system is not the best way to work out who gets what with a one off payment like this and it’s not a case of ‘too many well off folk just want to get their hands on free money’ as you so charmingly put it. The people targeted through the benefits system for the extra funding are largely either on disability benefits like PIP, or means tested benefits. Means testing thresholds are set very low and a lot of people who are on low incomes and struggling, are unable to access these benefits because they are only a pound or two over the threshold, so miss out on a lot of help. Jesus, this thread really is bringing out the worst in people !! While those of us largely at the bottom of the pile are sniping at each other about who deserves what, we’re leaving those at the top of the pile alone. It’s called divide and rule and the Tories are masterful at it. Seems they’ve hit the jackpot with this one.

See your point, but I think you’re overlooking the fact that the universal £400 is not by any means altruistic on the part of government. It’s done with one eye on the general election and in the hope that if they’re seen to be trying to help, even at this late stage, then all will be forgiven at the ballot box. Which, hopefully, it won’t. It’s also a convenient distraction from the Gray report, released on the same day. Cynical, moi ?

My first post literally says I am very happy to pay the additional tax and think it’s a good thing for high earners to pay more tax. I haven’t said anywhere I think I shouldn’t pay for the NHS?

@Rosscameasdoody ... in fact I totally share your cynicism, that's exactly my view too! Which makes it all the more ridiculous that it's so obviously lazily done.
As with Rishi this morning, journos should be making it their business to ask every politician, celeb and businessman what they'll be doing with their £400...

It would cost too much to identify who as entitled, who wasn't, deal with the appeals, etc. Don't underestimate the admin cost of means tested benefits.

It's cheaper and easier to give it to everyone.

The same argument works in favour of UBI to replace most other benefits, but the politics of "It's not fair" and Levelling-Down-Not-Up get in the way every time. They get in the way of a lot of good ideas.

That's a lovely idea hope others follow suit xx

Do we have any idea on the logistics of this all?
Are our gas and electric providers going to pay £400 on our account, then invoice Rushi?
Are we getting a cheque in the post?

Have they actually thought of the logistics of this?

And have they not learned their lesson from the Billions lost to covid grants for businesses that just 'appeared' over night

People will find a way to bleed this dry, and once again, the dis honest will come out on top.

He really is a fcking idiot. And to think I voted for this sht show

How different do you think it would be if we were still in the EU? All other things being the same?

They don’t. The bottom three quintiles receive more in tax credits and benefits than they pay in.

On average the changeover point at which you start contributing financially is about £40,000.

The ONS has some good reports laying out incomes by decile before and after taxes and benefits.

@Summerstink if we had remained in the EU, Boris Johnson would not be Prime Minister, Rishi Sunak probably not chancellor.

Rent caps reduce the availability of rented homes.

We stopped renting one of our homes out last year because of the changes in how mortgage interest could offset income. A rent cap on top would see us empty another one, as it just wouldn’t make sense to rent out.

Three wins for the price of one...

True. I was thinking more along the lines of comparison with the energy price situation in other comparable EU countries, having accepted the fact we have a Johnson/ Sunak in charge.

Although the alternative reality of a different leader all this time is intriguing to think on.

Do I "need" the £400...:well no. But it's certainly nice to have it🤷🏻‍♀️

Many people seem to be having a problem with the £400 energy rebate being universal. Those people on means tested benefits, and also some disability benefits are being targeted for extra help via the benefits system, and I think those who object to the £400 might get their heads round it a bit better if they accept that the benefit system is not the best way to target the most in need. Means testing thresholds and tapers are set very low and some households who struggle miss them by only a couple of pounds and lose out on a lot of help as a result. The universal £400 rebate will catch these people who would otherwise have missed out, and they will get at least some help. OK, so it will also be paid to some who don’t need it, but those people are perfectly free to donate £400 to charity or a food bank when their rebate is applied - thereby redistributing the help to those who most need it.

There are other ways to help people though that would have been preferable. A windfall tax and a universal payout isn't essential and has many negatives other than the one you have mentioned. It would have been better, for example, to uplift UC again by £20/ week as during the pandemic but they don't want to do that. They want to throw money at everyone, notably the older and better off people who vote for them. Some people can see this (I think you mentioned it earlier) but others don't. Why is it that the government can't come up with better, fairer ideas rather than expecting individuals to be generous and donate what they don't need. Most people won't do this; only a tiny number of pensioners opted out of the Winter fuel allowance, for example. Society in general is far more selfish and focused on the individual and their immediate family nowadays so it's not surprising.

Exactly, it so annoys me that people gloat on about how they wouldn’t need it, what exactly is it that’s annoys people about the fact that my family isn’t going to starve if we don’t get it but it would enable us to pay for swimming lessons for little one etc. Is it the fact they don’t realise that’s the case for a lot of families receiving it or do they not realise wealth exists on a wide spectrum and can only see themselves who £400 is small change and those on benefits? Alternatively is it that they think this money shouldn’t be to help compensate for the cost of living rises that have meant swimming lessons had to be given up and those kind of things?

We shouldn't be putting a windfall tax on energy companies - we should be suing the bloody arse off of them for knowingly destroying the climate. Then we should be investing that money into renewables. People say, but there is a storage issue, we would still need nuclear, etc etc.

But we all saw how globally we were able to produce a vaccine in record time because it was needed, and we know far more can be done than is being done now.

With the right will, we could wean ourselves off dirty energy completely in five years. It would create huge amounts of jobs and kickstart the economy. Why are we just in reaction mode? Why don't we aim for a New Deal, rather than Hooverville?

You don’t seem to understand that there are so many people who fall between the gaps, we are financially worse off than if we were in difference circumstances but on universal credit due to being a blended family. Other people are in that situation because they are students, all manner of reasons. So sorry if we’re actually glad we’re actually eligible for some help for once! They’ll be plenty of people like us and plenty of people who earn just above the threshold etc and sorry to you to if it perhaps makes them not feel like why do they bother. Those below the threshold are getting significantly more so it’s not the case the help isn’t being targeted

Of course it's obvious that some people are just above the threshold for benefits although you have said above that you are on UC anyway. That's always the case and those people will always feel hard done by.
I didn't say you shouldn't be pleased anywhere, it's human nature to be pleased by a giveaway. The government is aware of that and they are playing on that. The public is constantly played and most people seem unaware of it.
I'm not sure you have read or understood any of the other points made elsewhere on the thread about the disadvantages of the scheme and the problems it may cause now and in the future.

this seems like a very socialist measure, rather than a Conservative. Don’t think this is why people vote Tory. Just cut tax or reverse the ridiculous NI increase.

Windfall taxing the corporation doesn’t help investment in the long run either.

What if there’s a big discount for investment?