Every household?????

[Trainfromredhill]

So, the chancellor is going to give every household £400 for heating. Surely there should be a cut off of household income? The Beckhams, Elton John, james Dyson, Harry styles…….they all get the money too? . I say this as someone in the fortunate position of not needing the £400- I’d much rather it went to someone who does need it.Just seems a huge waste of public money to give it to everyone

Raining what would you do?

apols if I missed it. I am interested in other policies people think would work though

@Cornettoninja

The wheelchair user cant take the risk. They're not choosing not to as your post implies.

Raising the wheel chair user to the first floor helps reduce the overall inequality

This has been discussed on other threads. The government know how to target the most vulnerable through the benefits system but to introduce further means testing for everyone else would be prohibitively expensive - so funds that could be used to help people would instead go on admin costs. Rishi Sunak and others in government have been quoted as saying they will give their £400 to charity and there are numerous suggestions for anyone well off enough not to need it, to donate themselves and redistribute the funds that way. I also think that we ought not to forget that the government is hoping that by giving something to all, all will be forgiven come the general election. I suggest we all express our opinions at the ballot box !!

@MarshaBradyo - I already suggested a couple of time raising benefit levels to target those most in need.

However, I don't pretend to be any kind of an expert (this is nothing to do with my professional field, I just find politics and economics interesting). There are far more knowledgable people than me out there. What I really disagree with is the short term, self serving politics that is clearly being practised nowadays with absolutely no cogent, long term plan nor, frankly, any interest in making one as far as I can see. It's incredibly frustrating when this country is obviously in real trouble.
They are worried about inflation but keeping throwing money around to everyone, they want investment but impose an extra energy tax, they are worried about general business investment but increase corporation tax and contribute to uncertainty, they increase taxes and then throw a bit of a giveaway at everyone, the NHS has a backlog but they don't make a sensible plan about what is needed, they through money in its general direction, there is huge concern about energy (and food) yet they persist in antagonising Russia.
There is no plan.

True, it wasn’t an implication I intended to make but it is there nonetheless.

I’m not in agreement with arguing a metaphor that’s aim seems to be that raising people to an equally bad position is a good goal to have. In your scenario now both people are in a position with the same significant risks without protection. and still no way of getting to the top of the stairs with very little quantifiable gain for being half way up the stairs.

Living in Ireland so not a thing for us but while we are seen as middle earners (I’m minimum wage but dh is a decent wage) I agree if someone offered me this I’d be looking for it to go towards helping someone hear their home. Out of everything in life the thing we’re luckiest with is that our home is really really warm and a sun trap in the summer and weirdly not bad in the winter, they should definitely find a way of helping those who absolutely cannot pay heating bills x

Theresa May’s government tasked Ofgem with setting the price cap in 2019 and it does so independently of government. The energy industry was privatised and deregulated back when we lived in a world where there was cheap gas and no appreciation of climate change. For things to change, that has to be dismantled - it’s no longer relevant.

But the person in the wheelchair can still see it from the other’s perspective and recognise that it’s hard for them too.

An attitude of ‘oh it’s much easier for you’ is really unhelpful. And just invites a race to the bottom where people decide that the wheelchair user isn’t deserving enough because they can breathe without assistance and move around at all.

It is both possible and desirable to look at someone earning £100k and recognise that there are complexities and challenges in their lives too, which mean that their life is not quite what you imagine it should be. Even if you only earn £16k and cannot possibly imagine ever earning anything like £100k.

That’s not ‘feeling sorry for them’. I’m not sure that feeling sorry for people is a good mechanism for deciding who deserves help or understanding. It’s just saying that the whole of society would be better off if people actually tried to see the challenges in other people’s lives and didn’t see anyone better off than them, or not scraping along at the bottom of the heap, as having nothing to worry about.

The problem with this approach is that means tested benefits do not always reflect the poorest, as the thresholds for a lot of benefits are set very low and people can sometimes miss them by just a pound or two. As evidenced by several threads on this very subject, a lot of people are struggling and can’t access help because they’re slightly better off than someone who is on the bones of their arse. The system is broken.

'Interest rates are set by the BoE independently, they may well do but there’s going to be a lot of squeezed people when it happens'
@MarshaBradyo -just to add. There doesn't seem to be much independence of the BoE.

Should cover the cost of my empty holiday home's standing charges and occasional heating over the winter to stop the pipes freezing nicely ☺ leaves me with more money to spend elsewhere so the rest of the economy benefits too

I cross posted with your pp on that, thanks for answering again

I get the exasperation at seeing huge sums flying around and have felt that in the past, the only thing I’d say is there have been a fair few posts from people just outside benefits level who likely will very much need the £400 help. I know the very top do not but I can’t see a way to get it to the lower middle / middle but not benefits in an easy way.

I’m interested in economics and politics too (studied former, no expert but probably have a latent interest which attracts me to the topic) re direction I think a few things stand out

massive global shocks to economy
investment incentive for oil and gas with this levy (which I don’t believe Labour had)
Trying to increase skills with training incentives long term

re benefits iirc they are almost increasing to inflation and it will be a big bill. The other issue is public sector pay and how to not cause inflationary spikes

re Russia, yes again it’s hard to see huge spending but I think it is right in war against Putin which Ukraine needs support with - from everyone not just us

@SoggyPaper

I've never said people on 100k dont have problems.

However your ideal has to apply to all.

Its not a race to the bottom to acknowledge your advantage and privilege.

It is much easier to have more money than to have less. Thats just a fact.

Its not the lack of understanding that those on higher wages still have problems thats the issue.

Its the belief that those problems are just as bad as those on less.

Only having 400 left after youve paid all your expensive bills is not the same problem as not being able to pay your bills.

Its a problem if you think you deserve to have lots left after paying all your expensive bills, sure

Well said !!

This isn't a one off payment, the Govt has put in place the legislation until 2025! Fuel prices will not return to pre 2022 prices for many years, if at all, as we move to net zero, so help for the less well off will be required for a v long time.

Working people who are struggling will, in the main, also be in receipt of UC etc.

The Govt moved child benefit to be means tested to save them billions, so its easily done.

On the price cap, if billing companies cannot make a good profit, then their parent companies may well shut them down e.g BG and EDF..

Ofgem really do need to look at the standing charge again, companies may have incurred costs to take on millions of extra customers but they are not also making money out of them.

Or the difference between not being able to have any heating on in winter in the home you live in or being able to heat your empty holiday home and spend the difference

🙄

Sorry to single this post out but it clearly demonstrates why it is a ridiculous policy.

I’m amazed at the faith people have in the structure of the benefits system that allows them to think that DWP can easily change stuff. Honestly, it’s really, really not as straightforward as you’d hope to make what seem like small changes to anything with the benefits system.

Assume greater levels of systemic incompetency than you could possibly imagine. And really hard to fix issues within it.

It’s a bit like how impressive conspiracy theorists’ faith is in the competence of governments to not only achieve things but to cover them up effectively too. When in reality, there is absolutely no way any government is pulling off the things they think they have anyway. And certainly no way that they’re doing it secretly.

It’s your choice to have private healthcare - just because you don’t use the NHS doesn’t mean you shouldn’t contribute. If you have an emergency will you be ringing a private provider - no, you’ll dial 999 and get an ambulance to take you to the nearest NHS hospital for emergency treatment, like the rest of us.

Yes, agree that there are some other groups who are struggling too but this seems the most fair way to target struggling people overall.
There may well be more public sector strikes in the near future as you say.
Unfortunately, I think we are not helping Ukraine at all. We are also increasing the massive hit to the global economy (I think we are heading for worldwide recession). I guess these things always go wrong (conflicts, etc) when resources are in short supply.

Exactly this. Means testing is expensive and time consuming. Doubt HMRC would be massively thrilled about adding this one to the to do pile after the couple of years they've had.

No, and it’s not helpful either. Generally high earners have had more opportunity than those on lower wages, so the ‘choice’ to do a lower paid job is actually down to luck isn’t it ? And FYI people on benefits are tax payers too, as are those on lower wages, so we all contribute to the benefits system in one way or another.

Because you’re including people who may be asset rich but cash poor, and that will include vulnerable people who won’t apply - not because they can afford to lose £400, but who will find the application process so daunting that they won’t do it.

Your local food bank, citizens advice, local aid charity, homeless shelter, womens aid, would be incredibly grateful for the £400 you don't want.

Or the fuel bank foundation feels appropriate here www.fuelbankfoundation.org

We're by no means wealthy but don't NEED the £400 urgently. Sure it would be nice but I think it's lazy of the Govt not to even try target this, even just by some crude means testing like tax band. It dilutes the impact for those most in need.

I am thinking of donating ours to a local charity that directly assists struggling households. Hoping to encourage others to do the same! #pledgemywindfallgrant