To think friend is organizing social activities she knows we can't attend, then getting annoyed we can't attend them?

[youngwildandni]

We have a core group of 5 couples (us included) that we socialise with pretty often. 4 have children, one does not (cnbc).

We try and do a mixture of things with the kids and as adults only, though we do do more things with the kids. They're all aged between 6mo and 7 years so still very young families. We're all expats so none of us have family close by and having to shell out for a sitter too often gets expensive. Two of us also have very small babies - >1 so it's not so easy to leave them with someone else.

Our friend who doesn't have children - let's call her Jane - keeps inviting us all to things that most or all of us can't reasonably attend - either vv last minute things (e.g - text asking us all over for dinner tomorrow night at 8pm - past the kids bed time and usually too late to organize a sitter), or trying to organize a day gin tasting on a Saturday/ adults only weekend away etc that's just not really feasible. There have been loads of others too - and so usually some/ most/ all of us end up having to decline. As opposed to days out or dinners the kids can come to which we all usually go along to (Jane and her DH included). We do occasionally organize an adults only thing but this is usually weeks in advance rather than with days or sometimes even hours notice!

It's getting to the point now where she'll message the group once or twice a week suggesting something, mainly at very short notice, and we all have to say - again - that we can't go. Then she starts getting annoyed and telling us we're all boring! She has other friends who she goes out with a lot so it's not like by us not going, she doesn't get to go out.

AIBU to be annoyed that she keeps suggesting things she knows we probably can't do?! I've long since moved past the 'oh Jane's trying to organize another lovely thing for us all to do, isn't she nice' way of thinking and now I just feel like replying to each one something along the lines of 'ffs, Jane. You know we can't do that.🙄'

YABU - give Jane a break. At least she's trying.

YANBU - she knows you all have young families and you can't drop everything at a moment's notice to go to a cocktail making class/ spa weekend away/ dinner at a fancy new restaurant. No matter how much you might want to 😂

Jane sounds like a pita. Where does she get off calling you boring? She sounds incredibly dense, and next time she calls you names for not being able to drop everything to suit her, I would tell her so.

When she gets arsey/calls you boring or whatever, can you directly tell her that you can’t do things at short notice (for reasons you’ve explained here) and that she needs to plan things further in advance if she wants everyone there. That seems to me
as if it’d be quite reasonable.
I don’t see anything wrong with her saying ‘is anyone free on Saturday to…?’ just on the offchance, but if she always wants 4 specific couples present she needs to approach the arrangements differently.

Does everything have to be done as a couple? Surely all of the girls let's say, could actually go out for dinner at 8 some time...?

Pardon my ignorance, but what is "cnbc"?

It’s probably not that much fun for Jane and her husband to have to spend all that time with your collective kids - could you go for dinner with her without the husbands and explain about how you don’t like saying no all the time but childcare etc

@UnsuitableHat each time someone messages in response to say they can't come it's always explained by 'we can't get a sitter at such short notice' or 'we can't bring the kids to that so unfortunately it's a no from us this time' etc so I guess I assumed this would have been obvious to her by now. But yes I could make it more explicit and see if that helps.

@Anotherdayanotherdollar yes of course and we do do things as just the girls or a mixture of just one from each couple from time to time. My issue is that the things we can't do are generally things she has suggested which she has invited us to as a couple not as individuals. We could still go just one from each couple I know, but that's not how she's inviting us.

@SueblueNZ cnbc = childless not by choice 👍🏻

@Shoxfordian I agree with you - I think I would feel the same to be honest and we do try and do things without the kids too. The difficulty is she seems to want us to do things without them often - at least every other weekend, or random mid week nights - and this isn't really something I can (for budget reasons amongst other things) or want to do. I'm all for child free time but I also want to socialize with my kids too and amongst our group all the kids generally get on well so they like meeting up too.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to go out just the girls and sit her down and talk about it, but I can imagine I would be incredibly awkward in that situation and probably make a right dog's dinner out of it!

Your in different places she's seeing things from the perspective of not having kids and doesn't seem to understand that things change. If she's wanting more time with just you guys maybe one of the couple try to go. I would imagine it's hard when the dynamics of a close friendship group changes like that and whilst I'm sure she loves your kids it's understandable that she wants adult time.

This is Jane not you.

All you can do is ignore and just reply honestly and calmly. If Jane calls you boring, I would say something calm in reply like 'I don't think it's fair to call me boring' rather than ignore that. Someone calling you boring is not being much of a friend.

As a pp said do you always have to do things as couples? I have kids but have plenty of adult only nights & days out without my kids, their dad has them and vice versa. I think I would get fed up only seeing people with kids and doing kid friendly things, and I have kids- can’t be much fun for Jane. Is there not room for both, even if adult only means one person from each couple missing out to have the kids?

She will stop asking you very soon, it’s not really an issue to get annoyed about. Just decline what you can’t attend and don’t give it more thought

I think Jane just doesn't want every time she sees her friends to include children. It's a different dynamic and not very useful or interesting to someone who doesn't have children. So if she wants to see you regularly, rather than plan something weeks away, her only option is to throw out invites and see who can make it. I don't know why you're so bothered by this. If you can and want to go, then go. If you can't then say you can't. It's not a big deal.

Also, leave your partners at home sometimes. Of course they're invited, but, yeah, they don't always have to come.

She’s not unreasonable to ask but is unreasonable to call you boring if you say no.

Has it occurred to you that she's 'cnbc' and that could be very painful for her? She's crying out to you, telling you that she wants to spend time with you and you're just irritated.

Why can't you just say 'It's really hard to get childcare at short notice but Jim/Jane could come on their own.'

She'll get bored of asking eventually. I had a circle of friends I met through work and was the first one to have children (we were all early 30s so I wasn't young), they carried on inviting me to things after i had my first child, as they were still in the going out phase and I'd started a family, eventually they stopped asking. I had my first child 6 years ago, they are only just getting married and still haven't had children, we drifted apart as we were at a different stage in our lives. I've no idea what cncb means but assuming she can have kids she'll end up having them as yours are at the stage where you can do more and can leave them on their own. It'll come full circle. Usually when this happens though the people with children drift from the ones still doing the going out thing. Obviously this doesn't happen with long standing friends, but I've found people you meet along the way you can just drift if you aren't at the same stage in life.

I think I'd try and suggest other things like what Jane has suggested.

So let's say she messages and says
"Dinner at my place at 8pm tomorrow"
I wouldn't reply with a
"No, can't, kids will be in bed and can't get a sitter"
I'd try and reply something more like,
"We'd love to but can we do it Saturday to give us time to sort a sitter?"
Or,
"We'd love too, but one of us will stay home for the kids"
Or,
"Who's turn is it to have the kids for a sleep over whilst the rest of us go to Janes? Tony and Gemma, you had them last time didn't you? So Beryl and Brian's turn?"

So on and so on.

She’s not unreasonable to ask/invite.
You’re not unreasonable to politely decline on childcare/availability reasons.
The ‘boring’ comments bit is probably irrelevant- sounds lighthearted not annoyed?

If she’s got other friends and you already make an effort for adult only time then just own it ‘Yes, boring I know, Jane! Sorry.’

I can see where you are coming from but I feel sorry for Jane. You say you can't afford to do the things she suggests because of the cost of babysitters but actually if you value her friendship you should alternate, one week do something involving your kids at your convenience which will probably be incredibly hard for Jane given that she is childless. Then every other week do a grown up activity that she has planned. Next time she suggests something you can just say to Jane, sorry we keep saying no, we just need a little more notice to get away, could we do this in 2 weeks time? If you can't see that it's excluding her from your group to want everything to be child friendly or you don't care then maybe Jane would be better off finding new friends.

Can the mums or dads go out on their own ever or do you always have to go as a couple?

You just need to be very explicit then each time just reply sorry not possible again!

This completely, have some consideration that being childless not by choice means being around loads of kids can sometimes be quite painful.

Jane clearly just wants to spend time with you without you all always having all the kids in tow.

It is actually quite irritating to try and have adult conversations when people never ever want to do anything without their kids, it completely changes the dynamic.

Also - just start saying oh we could just do this as a girls night etc rather than it always having to be as couples and leave the kids with your partners.

If it's after the children are asleep at least one of you can go - she is inviting both because it would be rude to invite only one, but as long as she gets to see her friends I'm sure she doesn't honestly mind if you leave your husband at home.

It seems quite intense to be seeing each other so often anyway but perhaps that’s part of the difference of kids and no kids. I have two kids and weeks can pass almost inadvertently as I’m so busy. I feel for her if it’s not a choice not to have kids. But there needs to be more ‘just a few of us’ events and less often if she wants people to join in. Who even has the money to go out so much?