To think friend is organizing social activities she knows we can't attend, then getting annoyed we can't attend them?

[youngwildandni]

We have a core group of 5 couples (us included) that we socialise with pretty often. 4 have children, one does not (cnbc).

We try and do a mixture of things with the kids and as adults only, though we do do more things with the kids. They're all aged between 6mo and 7 years so still very young families. We're all expats so none of us have family close by and having to shell out for a sitter too often gets expensive. Two of us also have very small babies - >1 so it's not so easy to leave them with someone else.

Our friend who doesn't have children - let's call her Jane - keeps inviting us all to things that most or all of us can't reasonably attend - either vv last minute things (e.g - text asking us all over for dinner tomorrow night at 8pm - past the kids bed time and usually too late to organize a sitter), or trying to organize a day gin tasting on a Saturday/ adults only weekend away etc that's just not really feasible. There have been loads of others too - and so usually some/ most/ all of us end up having to decline. As opposed to days out or dinners the kids can come to which we all usually go along to (Jane and her DH included). We do occasionally organize an adults only thing but this is usually weeks in advance rather than with days or sometimes even hours notice!

It's getting to the point now where she'll message the group once or twice a week suggesting something, mainly at very short notice, and we all have to say - again - that we can't go. Then she starts getting annoyed and telling us we're all boring! She has other friends who she goes out with a lot so it's not like by us not going, she doesn't get to go out.

AIBU to be annoyed that she keeps suggesting things she knows we probably can't do?! I've long since moved past the 'oh Jane's trying to organize another lovely thing for us all to do, isn't she nice' way of thinking and now I just feel like replying to each one something along the lines of 'ffs, Jane. You know we can't do that.🙄'

YABU - give Jane a break. At least she's trying.

YANBU - she knows you all have young families and you can't drop everything at a moment's notice to go to a cocktail making class/ spa weekend away/ dinner at a fancy new restaurant. No matter how much you might want to 😂

alternatively someone with children who sleep could invite her over for a film with wine at home.

Really good point - is Jane now the only one trying to arrange social stuff? Is she being invited to things that her friends can still do?

People without kids just can't comprehend what life with kids is like and then they get upset that you're not as available and spontaneous as they are, you've all become parents and raises your level of maturity, might be time for her to find some single friends

Assuming she was being a bit tongue in cheek calling you boring then I can see both sides. It's annoying for you to have last minute invitations you can't make but she's probably also mourning her friendship group and the pain of not being a parent even though she (apparently?) wants to be one.

So I'd exercise empathy while also saying 'would love to do something but need more notice.'

If you say 'we can't get a sitter at such late notice' that could be interpreted as a sitter problem not a notice problem.
It might be clearer to say 'Sorry Jane, any child free event needs a lot more notice for me to be able to make the arrangements to attend' and then specify how much time you need. If you're down with watch she's organising, could you suggest a date in the future to rearrange it for? If she has a child free meet up in the future to look forward to it might stop the hassling in the mean time?
If you're not down for various reasons just be clear about that and don't blame it on the kids.
If she's being rude (which she is by calling you boring) just say there's no need for that, it's just the way it is.
If you genuinely think she's needling you on purpose and there's deeper issues about having children/not having children then just don't play that game. It won't do you or her any good.

It's not OK for her to call you boring, although I have to admit, the inability of any of you to go out individually rather than as a couple must be tedious and I doubt she's insisting on you all being couples only. But she will stop inviting you places and I honestly can't blame her. I had a few friends who just stopped being able to do any adult things the moment they had babies, and it went on for years. I eventually just stopped inviting them as I really didn't want to spend my free time in soft play or kids' museums etc.

I also wonder whether the fact that you're all unable to go out as individuals transfers into talking only about the kids when you do go out. If that's the case then I feel sorrier for Jane I'm afraid. It's horrible when you're CFNBC and a friendship group becomes an exclusive club that makes it painfully clear you're not a member every time you see them. I speak from experience there.

We do occasionally organize an adults only thing but this is usually weeks in advance rather than with days or sometimes even hours notice!

As others have said I think you need to do more child-free things - I'd aim for roughly alternating, depending on how often you're seeing each other.

you've all become parents and raises your level of maturity

This mentality is what I meant by 'exclusive club', btw.

And I just don't get this one, at all - DH and I both get invited to the same thing very often, of course, but I can't think of an occasion where the invitation was only for us as a couple, with it being somehow unacceptable or unexpected for only one of us to go.

So you consider people without children less mature than those who have them?

On an unrelated note: OP, however you choose to go about this, I suggest you don't sit her down with 'the girls' to tell her. I think this is very likely to make her feel ganged up on in a situation she already sounds unhappy about.

YABU (a bit). I’ve been/am Jane. It is tedious beyond belief when EVERY time you go out with friends to have a load of kids tagging along and everything has to centre around them. Would it kill you to go out without the kids once or twice?

I disagree quite strongly. It’s not hard to see what parenting entails. Experiencing it is different but it’s quite easy to empathetically comprehend fairly common issues. It’s more of a personality issue I think and whether someone is able to/wants to consider someone else’s circumstances.

Case in point, I have a friend with two dc, well paid job and lots (and I mean lots) of family support who threw the most spectacular strop when people couldn’t attend their destination birthday celebration for various reasons including childcare and finances.

Personally I like to think I do take friends circumstances; whether work, finance, childcare, caring responsibilities etc. into consideration because I want to meet my friends in enjoyable circumstances rather than under duress.

She wants to spend time with you not your kids 8pm is reasonable to invite people over for dinner and if you are expats I am assuming that kids eat much later than in the UK anyway? why doesn't one of you go? I'm not a planner for weeks in advance either. I don't want that commitment

Sounds like Jane is used to being the "spontaneous fun one!" and can't deal with the fact that that doesn't work in a group where everyone has kids.

I think the clue is in 'childless not by choice.' It may be a complex situation for her, and she's inviting friends who have children and expecting them to behave as if they too were childless. In other words, subconsciously removing your children from the situation because in some way validates her own childlessness.

(Or maybe she's just being a pita)

I dont have dc but i understand the organisation of babysitting etc-i wouldnt call anyone boring over not being able to go out

You're not all surgically attached to your partners, surely? Or can they simply not be trusted looking after their own children for an evening?

Or to put it in a more sensitive way, she doesn’t want to be made painfully aware of her childlessness every time she meets up with her friends?

Maybe try some reading comprehension. Jane isn't proposing all night disco trips ffs, so how do you arrive at that patronizing "maturity" comment? Unless what parenthood really raises is your level of condescension and entitled twattery.

Does anyone actually explain, when they message back saying sorry can't make it, that they can't do short-notice things because of the children? Perhaps if all four of you were to respond in the same words, 'Sorry, can't do it. Need notice to find a sitter' it would sink in. I sometimes call people boring if they keep turning things down, but it's meant in a friendly sort of 'Doh' way.

If you really want to keep in with her (sounds as if she's someone who puts a fair bit of energy into things) then surely every so often one or other of you could have a spontaneous evening out with her? Do you both have to be at home with the children every night?

Maybe she’s doing this because asking you to fun stuff you have to turn down because of the kids makes her feel better about not being able to have children? So she’s (perhaps only subconsciously) asking the impossible so that she can say having kids makes you boring and her life is still exciting and spontaneous?

@Youdothemaths I believe I said having children raises your level of maturity, doesn't it

I love this

Not always, from what I’ve observed.

I think you all need to show Jane a bit of kindness. Can you imagine how painful it must be to have all your closest friends having children, which you want but can not have. And then most of the times when you meet it is with the kids? She wants to spend time with her friends and support network when she isn’t surrounded by kids that she so desperately wants.

Yes, you did, and that comment carries a clear implication that you consider people without children less mature.