To think friend is organizing social activities she knows we can't attend, then getting annoyed we can't attend them?

[youngwildandni]

We have a core group of 5 couples (us included) that we socialise with pretty often. 4 have children, one does not (cnbc).

We try and do a mixture of things with the kids and as adults only, though we do do more things with the kids. They're all aged between 6mo and 7 years so still very young families. We're all expats so none of us have family close by and having to shell out for a sitter too often gets expensive. Two of us also have very small babies - >1 so it's not so easy to leave them with someone else.

Our friend who doesn't have children - let's call her Jane - keeps inviting us all to things that most or all of us can't reasonably attend - either vv last minute things (e.g - text asking us all over for dinner tomorrow night at 8pm - past the kids bed time and usually too late to organize a sitter), or trying to organize a day gin tasting on a Saturday/ adults only weekend away etc that's just not really feasible. There have been loads of others too - and so usually some/ most/ all of us end up having to decline. As opposed to days out or dinners the kids can come to which we all usually go along to (Jane and her DH included). We do occasionally organize an adults only thing but this is usually weeks in advance rather than with days or sometimes even hours notice!

It's getting to the point now where she'll message the group once or twice a week suggesting something, mainly at very short notice, and we all have to say - again - that we can't go. Then she starts getting annoyed and telling us we're all boring! She has other friends who she goes out with a lot so it's not like by us not going, she doesn't get to go out.

AIBU to be annoyed that she keeps suggesting things she knows we probably can't do?! I've long since moved past the 'oh Jane's trying to organize another lovely thing for us all to do, isn't she nice' way of thinking and now I just feel like replying to each one something along the lines of 'ffs, Jane. You know we can't do that.🙄'

YABU - give Jane a break. At least she's trying.

YANBU - she knows you all have young families and you can't drop everything at a moment's notice to go to a cocktail making class/ spa weekend away/ dinner at a fancy new restaurant. No matter how much you might want to 😂

I'd stop digging @Beetlewings if I were you. Your original, moronic, comment will not be improved by attempts to justify it.

No, she isn't the only one arranging social things. We all do - a lot with the kids but also some without them. To be fair it is mainly stuff with the kids - days at the beach/ park/ golf simulator place/ bowling etc. without the kids is usually out for dinner & drinks once every month or 6 weeks.

That's the thing - she's not just inviting the women. If she was we absolutely could do this. It's usually something like 'Dave wants to try this tapas place - why don't we all go the guys will love the beer and we can all have a sangria' for eg.

It is hard. I also went through years of infertility/ ivf to have my family so I'm trying to be mindful of how I would feel if I was Jane (obviously I can't ever truly know having been lucky enough that our treatment worked).

But the reason we can't do this is both cost and the fact we all have to organize childcare - which is expensive and not always easy.

On an unrelated note: OP, however you choose to go about this, I suggest you don't sit her down with 'the girls' to tell her. I think this is very likely to make her feel ganged up on in a situation she already sounds unhappy about.

I agree with this - she'll also know we've all been talking about it which would upset me if I was her.

As I said in my original post - we do go out without the kids. But because of childcare costs and generally trouble with finding childcare etc it's not as frequent as going out with the kids. I'd say we go out child free maybe once every 4-6 weeks and with the kids most weekends. Going out without them is generally to a nice restaurant/ bar with dinner & drinks, while going with them is usually the beach/ park/ casual lunch. We also go round to each other's houses a lot - the kids usually go off and play while we eat/ drink but again this is usually daytime or early evening and then we all leave for the kids' bedtimes. Jane wants this to be much later evening and involve a lot more alcohol which , unless we all get a sitter, we can't do. The number of kids involved means we can do a mass sleepover etc.

I’d wherever possible try to meet her halfway. As others have said, one couple goes and see if you can arrange babysitting amongst you, or just the women or just the men. She can’t seriously think that she can get 4 other sets of people to come out at short notice, kids or not, every time she has the short notice whim to do so? Surely it’s fine if couples 1 and 2 say yes whilst couples 3 and 4 say no? Or is it one of those “move as a pack” dynamics where people get very offended to be left out?

also how about inviting Jane and partner to yours for dinner once kids in bed so she gets some time with friends, no kid interruptions and you don’t have to pay for sitters?

othwrwise just say - sounds great but that’s too short notice. How about we put something in for xx week / day?

Thanks for all the responses. I think probably next time it happens I'll message her privately and say something like 'sorry to keep saying no to x/y/z , it's not we don't want to come but we need more notice for childcare etc. why don't we plan to do this one (date), that gives us all time to organize a sitter'

Does anyone actually explain, when they message back saying sorry can't make it, that they can't do short-notice things because of the children? Perhaps if all four of you were to respond in the same words, 'Sorry, can't do it. Need notice to find a sitter' it would sink in.

Yep - every time. It's a group chat and so I can see what everyone says and it's a 'sorry, would love to but can't organize a sitter by tonight/ tomorrow' kind of reply from each of the 4 couples.

As for people asking can't one of the couples go And the other stay at home, well yes. I guess we could do that. The way we've always socialised you until now it hasn't been like that - it's always an 'all or nothing' kind of thing and she js definitely asking us as a couple not individually. But I suppose that could change 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yes, this is true. She does also have lots of child free friends that she goes out with a lot - from what she tells us and pictures she puts on her SM she's out 2/3 times a week anyway with other people so while she doesn't see us without the kids as often as she (apparently) wants to she is getting to go out and socialise a lot still.

I still don't understand why it's impossible to do anything without the whole household along. Those 8pm dinners are basically after bedtime. One parent stays home and chills, the other has a nice time out.

There has to be some kind of compromise and I'm assuming that Jane would prefer to see the couple-friends individually, than have to be always going to kids parks and mini golf. I really don't know why none of you in this group has suggested it, as it seems really obvious as a solution? I know you say she refers to both Husband and Wife in her plans but presumably that's to avoid being rude/leaving people out rather than because she can't bring herself to socialise any other way than with all 10 of you. I suspect that you don't really want to suggest it as in my experience with friends with kids, they don't like to "waste" time spent without the children on their (childless) friends.

I didn't say it was impossible 🤷🏻‍♀️ it's just that generally we do things either as a whole family or as a couple. We could along one of us and the other stay at home, it's just not something that has happened so far.

It's usually something like 'Dave wants to try this tapas place - why don't we all go the guys will love the beer and we can all have a sangria' for eg.

You absolutely have to shift the thinking here. The correct response to this is, "Sounds amazing. Pete and I have tossed a coin and I'm getting Sangria this time while he stays home with the kids. Him and Dave can enjoy the beers next time." Or similar.Th point is that all together, couples etc, is clearly not working any more, so now it's time to adjust to a new version.

Or... "That sounds fantastic but nightmare with sitters and arrangements. Can we do girls this week and boys next week and compare notes after?"

Tbf it might be worth you encouraging separate groups and pointing out couples don’t need to be joined at the hip.

can you discreetly sound out one of the other couples and see if they’d be on board too?

As for people asking can't one of the couples go And the other stay at home, well yes. I guess we could do that. The way we've always socialised you until now it hasn't been like that - it's always an 'all or nothing' kind of thing and she js definitely asking us as a couple not individually. But I suppose that could change

So this is the issue - I don't know anyone who socialises exclusively as a couple like this. I would think it was a bit weird and codependent for a couple without children, for one with children it's just hopelessly impractical.

Yes that's my thought too. In which case last minute requests arent entirely unreasonable as in a healthy relationship it's possible either partner can do the childcare for an evening while the other goes out.

Agree with this too. If they are your good friends then it's only fair to appreciate stuff with kids all the time will be difficult for them - you said in your post cnbc so childless not by choice - and so even more so. I'm amazed you haven't tried socialising as just girls or just boys or a mix but just those of the couple not on childcare duty. It'll give you all a break too and mean not everything is centred around the kids.

Just to put things into context for those who think I don't ever socialise independently of my husband - we do. I regularly meet friends for coffee or lunch or just drop over to their houses for a cup of tea in the afternoon. These tend to be friends who are sahm or who wfh and can find the time to catch up. DH watches a lot of sport so goes to watch matches with friends and also goes out for beers etc as and when he wants. He is a lot more likely to go out in the evening while I tend to stick to daytime things - this is my choice and I'm happy with it. We've been out ladies only/ guys only but those nights are few and far between - the last 4.5 years for me have been pretty much a cycle of rounds of ivf/ being pregnant/ breastfeeding etc and I'm comfortable with daytime socialising, outings as a family with the kids or going 'out out' mainly with DH and said circle of friends or very occasionally ladies only.

When I said before we could go out independently but it hasn't happened yet I meant with this group of friends - sorry if I've not explained that clearly.

Jane is obviously not a sahm nor does she wfh.

I like going out with DH - we don't get chance to go out together as much as we used to pre kids and so if we're going out properly it does tend to be as a group of couples.

I'm taking on board the advice of people who've said things like, when Jane messages asking to do something to say 'oh that sounds great, it's not something I can do right now because of childcare but how about we plan it for A N other time?' And also yes understanding that even if we have no childcare then DH or I could go alone.

Honestly I think I'll still find it hard not to eyeroll when I get a message from Jane asking if we all want to go out for a night of cocktails in 30 minutes' time though, or suggesting a last minute weekend away to an adults only resort leaving in 3 days.

Then yes, she is being unreasonable. But even though this isn't how she frames the invitations, it would still be sensible to reply saying just one of us can make it due to childcare, shall we still give the tapas place a try tomorrow just those of us who can make it? If she still won't have that, then there's not much to be done. But she may be fine with it.

I feel for Jane who is cfnbc but really, she has to adjust her expectations. I’m in a friendship group where we are the only couple without kids and it is not painful for us, but I can imagine how it could be for others. Getting together has to work around existing priorities especially when kids are small. Keeping meetups small and loose works. And when the kids get older, it’s more flexible.

Every time, all the parents should reply to Jane " No thanks, doesn't fit with parental responsibilities".

If she tells people they are boring, reply "You're tactless and thoughtless".

I like going out with DH - we don't get chance to go out together as much as we used to pre kids and so if we're going out properly it does tend to be as a group of couples.

This is what I was getting at when I said that I suspected that it wasn’t that Jane only wants to socialise with couples, but that the couples don’t want to waste their time without kids on their childless friends. Which is your choice, but I think better to be honest about it rather than dressing it up as impossible to do because that’s what Jane wants.

Jane is quietly jealous of the fact that you all have children and is trying to rub it in your face that she can do things you can’t do, because this makes Jane feel less sad about her lack of children.

Your friendship with Jane is probably doomed unless she gets over her jealousy.