To think friend is organizing social activities she knows we can't attend, then getting annoyed we can't attend them?

[youngwildandni]

We have a core group of 5 couples (us included) that we socialise with pretty often. 4 have children, one does not (cnbc).

We try and do a mixture of things with the kids and as adults only, though we do do more things with the kids. They're all aged between 6mo and 7 years so still very young families. We're all expats so none of us have family close by and having to shell out for a sitter too often gets expensive. Two of us also have very small babies - >1 so it's not so easy to leave them with someone else.

Our friend who doesn't have children - let's call her Jane - keeps inviting us all to things that most or all of us can't reasonably attend - either vv last minute things (e.g - text asking us all over for dinner tomorrow night at 8pm - past the kids bed time and usually too late to organize a sitter), or trying to organize a day gin tasting on a Saturday/ adults only weekend away etc that's just not really feasible. There have been loads of others too - and so usually some/ most/ all of us end up having to decline. As opposed to days out or dinners the kids can come to which we all usually go along to (Jane and her DH included). We do occasionally organize an adults only thing but this is usually weeks in advance rather than with days or sometimes even hours notice!

It's getting to the point now where she'll message the group once or twice a week suggesting something, mainly at very short notice, and we all have to say - again - that we can't go. Then she starts getting annoyed and telling us we're all boring! She has other friends who she goes out with a lot so it's not like by us not going, she doesn't get to go out.

AIBU to be annoyed that she keeps suggesting things she knows we probably can't do?! I've long since moved past the 'oh Jane's trying to organize another lovely thing for us all to do, isn't she nice' way of thinking and now I just feel like replying to each one something along the lines of 'ffs, Jane. You know we can't do that.🙄'

YABU - give Jane a break. At least she's trying.

YANBU - she knows you all have young families and you can't drop everything at a moment's notice to go to a cocktail making class/ spa weekend away/ dinner at a fancy new restaurant. No matter how much you might want to 😂

I wonder if there is more going on here. I agree with the PP who commented on her not having children and potentially finding it very difficult to be around all of the other children. I don’t have children (so far, by choice) and it can feel very isolating being around people who are always talking about their children, never-mind always interacting with them. That’s not to say I begrudge them that, but it can make me feel like a complete outsider. If you were all friends pre-kids, this must be especially hard for her to deal with. Perhaps in a clumsy way, she is trying very hard to connect and isn’t quite understanding your position.

However, I also find it interesting that you chose to tell us that she is childfree not by choice, because on the surface, this isn’t relevant to her invitations. So I think either you know that her being childfree is an issue for her, or perhaps there’s even some judgment or pity from those who have children towards her. It’s just an interesting detail to reveal here unless you already have an idea this plays a part. Perhaps you should muse on that. You’re clearly irritated by what’s going on, but if you want to continue to connect with your friend, then I think perhaps some self-reflection and compassion will go a way to helping here.

Tell Jane you can’t do short notice because of the kids and can she arrange something with more notice? Then just keep repeating ‘too short notice sorry’ every time she asks

alternatively someone with children who sleep could invite her over for a film with wine at home.

This isn't really an excuse. I'm childfree, and when I make arrangements with my friends who have children, I try to factor in their circumstances. I wouldn't accuse them of being boring for not being able to arrange childcare at very short notice.

Jane is BU. As she is not childfree by choice, she may be taking out her issues on you, which isn't ok.

As someone with older kids I can now partake in last minute activities and weekends, life does move on

Yea I remember being called boring by a friend for the first time snd it was decades ago but still stings (I'm often called that these days by another friend when I stop drinking for Lent, as if I'm normally down the pub every night life of the party otherwise 🙄).
She was the year below me at uni and after I graduated I got a job and mortgage - Thatcher days! She came to visit and called me boring as I couldn't go out clubbing on a work night and had to mind my budget (nothing new there). She was still a free and easy student, supported by her parents and with no responsibilities. Afraid our friendship petered out soon after.
Are you giving Jane the real reasons you are unavailable? Are you actually telling her that due to childcare you can't go out with such short notice or both be away? Spell it out to her. You may assume she knows, but you don't know what a tie kids are until you have them.
Mind you I did invite three couples to dinner on short notice and they all came. When I expressed my surprise they were all able to they said no one ever asks them out as they assume with small kids they can't, and they fell on the invite eagerly. One off though (as I had young kids plus teenagers myself).

Just be a bit more direct and tell her that you will probably never be able to do things at short notice because of the kids and it's better if she doesn't invite you unless there is at least X amount of notice for you to get a sitter.

I can understand it from both sides - frustrating for you but also for her as the only childless one in your group I can see why she's wanting to socialise.

You just need to be a bit more explicit about your availability.

Must be hard for Jane who cant have kids to have 2 friends recently have babies. I'd cut her some slack and just keep standard reply 'sounds lovely but sorry it's too short notice'

Is she daft what does she expect you to do with the dc ? I’d probably start replying with daft answers like absolutely We are up for it we will just tie little Jonny to the radiator for the evening with a packet of biscuits to eat , he’ll be absolutely fine on his own with no one to watch him .

I guess it's likely that Jane is struggling due to cnbc, and wants to see you without children, and is maybe even lonely.

I'm not sure what the norm is in expat communities, but someone trying to organise something multiple times a week (sorry if I've misread that) would be too much for me. I love seeing my friends but also love my evenings chilling out and catching up on stuff- so even if I had childcare would only go once every week or 2.

I think I would get really annoyed if I were you TBH, especially with 'boring' comments, but suspect I will be told I am not compassionate!

Has nobody said to Jane 'we can't do that. It's too late for the Dc/I have no sitter?' If so, how did she respond?

Why don't you just tell her?

Jane, whilst it's nice you suggest.... most of the time I can't get a babysitter last minute.

Tbh I think Jane needs to find herself some new friends who are childfree/childless. That is not to say she should stop being friends with you or you her. But you just aren’t on the same page right now.

Jane probably needs to get childfree friends (or ones who are left the best)

Nest!

Talk to Jane specifically - she doesn't have kids, she doesn't have much insight. She needs clear explanations, not resentment.

Why can’t you go out not as a couple, presumably you only need one person to sit with the kids?

I feel for Jane, being in a position where you can mostly only see your friends with all their kids (when let’s face it you can’t even have a proper uninterrupted conversation, let alone have a drink / dance / whatever) is really hard, particularly when you can’t have kids.

Talk to her about it and look for solutions if you want to maintain the friendship.

Why not have a monthly meet up of the girls and a monthly meet up of the boys? Then every so often a family one with the children. That makes more sense

This is one of those ones where I can see your issue but equally I’d want to see Jane’s post on the same topic.

Do you always do everything as couples or is there precedent for one person staying at home with the kids and the other going out, so the group as a whole is 5 couples but each individual event is a mixed bag of 5/10 people? As pp have suggested, saying yes sometimes but only as one half of the couple might be a good compromise to keep Jane’s friendship. Although that mostly works for spontaneous dinners rather than lairy day-drinking sessions or weekends away.

The key really is whether you want to stay friends with Jane, or whether she’s in your circle because you’re all expats and in other circumstances you wouldn’t be friends.

As someone who is child free by choice, I wouldn't want to spend my weekends with other people's children. As Jane is child free NOT by choice, it may be acutely painful for her. I think you need to be more thoughtful in recognising why she's probably suggesting adult only activities.

Being child free but not by choice is hard (speaking as someone who really struggled having mine) so in your place I’d take the boring comment on the chin and just keep gently repeating that you can’t do such and such at short notice. She’ll get the message eventually.

Sounds to me like she'd just really like to socialise without the kids there. Which is understandable. I'm not sure it can be much fun for them.

Is she inviting both parents each time? If she's only inviting say the woman, I can understand if she's getting back lots of I can't, no sitter etc, when the fathers are there to look after the kids.

Otherwise, id just be direct and open. Jane, we just can't make plans last minute anymore, it doesn't work, and we don't want to keep annoying you by saying no, but why don't we book something in for a couple of weeks time?

If yous are giving valid reasoning every time, and she's not getting it, just come out and say a blanket I will never be able to go to these events without at least more notice than this, it doesn't work for us otherwise.

But I can see her annoyance. She's clearly trying to make your socialising a bit more fun for her, which in a friendship should be both ways so the socialising shouldn't just be on your terms.

So Jane is the childless one, but wants children. Poor Jane. Maybe she is inviting you on purpose in order to pretend to herself that having children is a pain?

Yanbu. Just keep saying, "Thank you but it's too short notice to get a sitter." Every single time. She will get the message.

I’m sympathetic to those who are cfnbc (handy acronym) and had many years of infertility myself and I think Jane is UR.

dc are a responsibility that can’t just be dropped on a whim, it’s not like childcare/babysitting isn’t known to be expensive or difficult to arrange outside of parenting circles. Calling people ‘boring’ is just rude and has no other function other than to cause upset.

Swapping babysitting duties sounds like a great idea in principle but getting into the details of it doesn’t sound like it’ll work in OP’s examples. I wouldn’t want a sleep over for dd on a school night and I definitely wouldn’t want to look after a baby overnight and that’s before even considering if the mum is ready to leave them, if they’re bf’ing etc.

personally I think Jane needs to adjust her expectations, look past her own pain to consider whether she’s asking too much from people supposed to be her friends and if she’d be better off stepping back from friendships that involve people who have set in stone responsibilities if she’s not happy to accept that.

I don't understand. If Jane send a message suggesting you all go to a show together, why can't someone respond with, "Ooh, sounds great. Dave will have to stay home to watch the kids but I'd love that." I literally cannot understand how an invite is so specifically for a couple that one part of the couple can't come alone.