Who will win between Johnny Depp and Amber Heard defamation case

[Egtermekaar]

If you were jury in this case, how would you decide?

I think Johnny Depp will win because he had strong, reliable and consistent evidence of "his" case

I hope MN will allow debate about a matter of public interest.

Depends who's on the jury. I suspect it'll boil down to the women saying she's obviously a victim and the men saying he's the victim.

People make up their mind fairly quickly and ignore the evidence (though they won't admit it)

That still leaves 8 incidents even if those 2 were dismissed. And his team were denied leave to appeal. His behaviour in even bringing this case at all backs up that he’s an abuser.

But as I said @BobbinHood, the judge believed her. So each point he believed her on, added credibility to the others. He only believed her over the Hicksville trailer because he said it was in line with Depps usual behaviour. Which Heard had told him about. But it was a lie about the trailer. If he'd known she lied on 3 points, maybe that would have undermined his rulings on the other points. And I haven't gone through all the incidents the judge ruled on, so I could probably find things to discredit those as well.

She lied over things. We now know she has because we've heard it in court. Neither we nor the uk court knew it at the time but Depp did. Why wouldn't he want everyone to know his side of the story? And why is he wrong to want her lies exposed and be exonerated in a small way?

I watch a YouTuber, who is a lawyer, who goes to the trial to watch the jury. There are 9 jurers and he said most of them look like they've made up their minds and just look bored most of the time. Some testimony seems to wake them up but it could be in Depps favour or Heards favour so no particular bias one way or the other.

He's definitely biased towards Depp, though, and he thinks it could go either way, so I think Heard's side is probably doing better than most people think. He said things that seem a big thing to us watching, they don't seem to even take on board. That's why I don't think we can predict anything.

There are no 'winners' here.

In fact dd was telling me a boy pushed one of her friends the other day and when she told him he had hurt her he told her to 'stop being an Amber Heard'

Regardless of who is telling the truth, this trial has been a disaster for female victims of domestic abuse and a massive win for misogyny.

What’s the point dragging someone through the mud to be exonerated for one thing when he’s done equally bad things and worse? His stated aim was to destroy her, not to clear his name because he knows he can’t do that because he is not innocent. And he’s succeeding in that with the help of social media manipulation and people who are taken in by his reputation and are letting that cloud their judgement.

I genuinely feel like I’m watching a different trial to other people. Even his conduct in court has disgusted me throughout.

For libel the onus is on the claimant to prove, not the defendant. So it is up to JD to prove he didnt abuse her, rather than her to prove he did. (Same for the counter-claim I would presume, though I'm less sure of that)

I believe her, and I think she has "won" in the sense of who proved what legally. That said, I'm less sure of the jury finding her way. I don't hold my breath for anything in that country.

@BobbinHood I'm not a Depp fan. I've only ever watched one film and that was to see Brad Pitt. I never got the Depp love. So I don't think my judgements clouded. After the UK trial I was bemused why he'd take her to court again after losing so decisively. But the case has changed my opinion. And I think its unfair to say because I don't agree with you, I'm not seeing things clearly.

I still think he abused her but where before I thought she was an unfortunate victim, now I don't feel that so much. She's told quite a few lies which makes me doubt her. And from what I've seen for people to walk away from listening to the uk trial thinking she was a philanthropic benefactor and innocent abuse survivor whilst Depp was denigrated as being the sole abuser, would be a travesty of the truth.

If I were Depp, I'd want everyone to hear the whole truth too. I don't know what he had to lose. Even his son was receiving abuse at school. I don't think he's done anything disgusting in court. I can see both sides of their argument so just as I'll stand up for Heard over criticism of her facial expressions or behaviours, I'd do the same for Depp. They're both under massive pressure because this is potentially going to change their lives. If they handle the occasional thing badly, I think we can excuse that.

The emails and texts they've just shown he sent don't paint him in a very good light at all, and Depp suggesting Ambers lawyer could have typed them up the night before or that he might have lent someone his phone makes him look dodgy.

I am 100% on JD side. I’m saying that as someone who has never been a fan of his, been a victim of DV and been in extremely toxic relationships.

I fully believe she was the abuser. She has set out to destroy JD because she thinks she is superior and a classic abuser. The recording of her laughing and mocking his career, calling him fat, washed up, he was the biggest bloody star on the planet when she hooked up with him. At no point in that recording did I hear a victim of DV, at no point in any of the recordings dose she come across as a victim. However, he clearly dose.

I agree he’s said some vile things, but that what happens in a toxic relationship. It destroys who you are and people in toxic relationships lash out and become someone they are not. I know that’s what it was like for me. Having this discussion with a lady in the hairdressers today, she 100% agreed, she’d also been in a toxic relationship and did things she’d never dream of. I’m not excusing his behaviour but I do think everything needs to be taken in context especially with his well known and documented drug and alcohol addictions.

Also being in one toxic relationship dose not make you a toxic person in general! JD has had plenty of healthy relationships, this is shown by his ex’s willing to defend him.

People keep ranting on about misogyny, that has nothing to do with this, people are coming out to support JD because they believe he is the victim. When AH first accused him, so many people believed her, it’s only because her lies have been exposed that she is now facing this backlash which she fully deserves, she had no problem with the public and media believing she was a victim and vilifying him, even going on chat shows claiming she’d HAD donated her meger divorce settlement because she apparently wanted nothing from him.

The whole LA courthouse was a set up, I’ve no idea if the bruise was real, I suspect not given all the pictures there are of her with no bruise. I read somewhere that restraining orders don’t have people testifying, the lawyers send their submissions to the judge who decides in chambers, quite often the lawyers will send a runner to get the restraining order. I’ve no idea if this is true, but I do know that the courthouse has multiple entrances, many used by celebrities on a regular basis to avoid the press, she could have used any one of these but choose to walk through the main entrance with her publicist… She admitted (although she realised her error straight away) in her deposition that TMZ had been notified, she also lied saying she had no idea how the media knew about her being there… She 100% wanted the publicity and was jumping on the back of the me too bandwagon to prove she was able to bring down one of hollywoods biggest stars.

Many people believed, long before this she was physically abusing her sister and her sister is to scared to defend herself. This is dating back prior to AH meeting JD. Just like the assault charge on her ex partner. There is video taken from years before meeting JD of her sister with bruises and scratches that highly suggested AH had inflicted.

There are far too many lies and contradictions to list from her, whereas JDs story has been consistent through.

Someone upthread said that he should have let this go, gone to rehab and move on, why should he? If he was a woman would you be saying the same? He has had his entire reputation destroyed by a woman who has proven time and time again that she is a violent manipulative liar, he should be able to tell his side of the story. He also has children who have had to live with their father being accused of abusing and beating his wife beater. I don’t believe he cares about the loss of earnings, I think he cares about the truth being known, even if that truth shows a side of him he didn’t want people to know about. He’s shown he’s no longer ashamed and is standing up against his abuser which is what we encourage victims of DV to do.

This woman has set back the plight of women who of genuinely victims of DV by years, she 100% needs to be called out on it.

I agree with you actually.

I work closely with a service that provides support to customs of domestic abuse. This trial has been a disaster for most of their clients. Their abusers are calling them Miss Heard and perpetrators are using the whole thing to make out that the victims are liars and they are the real victims and 'see, this is what women do'.

I'm not saying that JD shouldn't defend his position but I don't believe he was the innocent party here. Neither of them were obviously, but he's more famous, has more money, is inexplicably beloved by a lot of people and, crucially, is a better actor and therefore he is being believed.

His behaviour in even bringing this case at all backs up that he’s an abuser.

This is what I don't understand, the narrative that his only motivation for bringing the case was to be abusive.

He's a man. If he was a victim he should just suck it up, that seems to be the general view.

“He also has children who have had to live with their father being accused of abusing and beating his wife beater.”

And it’s better for them that the world knows he smashes things up in rage when drunk and on drugs, scrawls messages in his own blood and sends horrendous text messages, including ones about their mother?

Like the line that shouldn’t be crossed for his children is hitting her? Everything else they’ll be fine with?

Thats why I said he could have just left it and moved on, nothing to do with his sex at all, it’s that what he’s exposed about himself is horrible, even if he never actually hit her, he comes out of this looking worse than he did before it.

Johnny has won and quite rightly so! He didn't hit her.

This is what confuses me. The level of detail and length of this case, some prolific criminal trials have been a lot shorter in the us. In fact the infamous Casey Anthony trial was 6 weeks long also. So if Heard wins can she go to a criminal trial? If Depp wins hasn't she then lied on the stand and is open to perjury? Where does it end? In the Rooney v Vardy case, I'd hazard a bet that Vardy did sell the stories, but even so unless someone saw her physically do it, how can Rooney win? I do believe there is precedence there.

I think it doesn't matter who wins (I am on Johnny's side however). I feel that they will keep dragging each other to court either way...

This is why I think the best result is that they both win and they get equal damages. And then it ends. No more suing and they get their lives back. Anyone interested has already formed an opinion and that's not going to change, whatever the result is.

The ‘facts’
(most of it has really just been allegations, also known as mud slinging)
Her
She is a liar (under oath, about donating the divorce settlement)
She admitted to hitting him (on tape)

Him
Alcoholic, drug addict (junkie?)
Sends vile text messages about his exes (plural)
Lost at least one job (FantasticBeasts) probably because of this

The Court of DifficultBloodyWoman
She is definitely abusive.
He is an unpleasant alcoholic and addict (and may also be abusive).

Are they as bad as each other? It is irrelevant because they both meet the badness threshold beyond which I don’t care. They should be kept far way from one another and and made to spend as much as they have on lawyers on both therapy and rehab.

The Court of Public Opinion
Are they as bad as each other? I think Amber Heard is coming off worse. Johnny Depp can probably resurrect his career after this but I don’t think she can.

The Court Verdict
Hmmm.
On balance of probabilities, Johnny Depp should win.
Beyond a reasonable doubt, Amber should win.

Really, I don’t think either of them should ‘win’.

To be fair, she's lied about a lot more than the money!!

They know their father said those things because he was in an abusive toxic relationship at the time and there is no shame in being a drug addict or alcoholic, they are sicknesses that he has sought treatment for over the years and was clean for many years.

you telling me you would smash a few things up if you had just found out that people you trusted with your finances had just lost you $650million? I would certainly be in a rage.

I don’t think he looks worse at all, he is at least owning his mistakes, can you say the same for her?

Legally he should lose.

I'm no fan of hers but he is clearly abusive and bringing this to trial is textbook narcissistic behaviour.

I think Depp has seemed more stable and in control throughout, he also has a better legal team behind him. Kate Moss’ testimony will be a huge help to him too, she didn’t have to testify at all and is a famously very private person. Depp will probably win. I don’t think Heard is likeable at all, she just appeared to be acting badly throughout.

I think they both abused one another though fwiw. It was just a toxic relationship and they should just be relieved it’s over now.

I agree that this has been awful for DV victims.

If you ever hit back you “gave as good as you got” or “there was mutual abuse”.

I don’t like either of them and my opinion of him has certainly dropped.

The whole thing seems to hang on did he hit her rather than just 'was he abusive' which he obviously was (as was she). I think there's a lot to suggest he didn't (including her saying she hit him and taunting him for walking away when things got physical and all his exes saying he was never violent in any way) and a lot to suggest it could have gone that way (the extreme jealousy, the drink and drug extremes, the vile messages and the smashed up rooms).

His whole thing has been to discredit her and she has been proved a liar which really has done her no favours.

I didn't hear the bit where AH brought up KM but I'm amazed it was allowed as it sounds like it was just rumour and speculation and JD's team have been quick to shut down anything that wasn't either what AH said or JD said.

I'm glad I don't have to decide either way, they both seem to have had very abusive childhoods she clearly equates violence with love and as a result they both have a lot of issues with substance abuse not to mention narc traits if you ask me. I think they are both losers in this, both come out looking bad no matter what, both are clearly messed up, abusive and generally not nice people. I don't think either of their careers will be going anywhere.

I didn't hear the bit where AH brought up KM but I'm amazed it was allowed as it sounds like it was just rumour and speculation and JD's team have been quick to shut down anything that wasn't either what AH said or JD said.

I think they were happy AH said it. That's why they didn't object. They were smiling after she said it. It meant they could bring in Kate Moss. Obviously they felt that would be impressive. Although most of the jury seem to be young men and might not even know who she is.