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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

watching a town completely die

433 replies

BlessedByTheShitFairy · 25/05/2022 13:37

This is so sad really, the town where I grew up. I know many business folded during covid and many high street staples have been closing for years, but this is different.

It's a large town, over 400K population, had a bustling, varied and thriving centre for most it's history, has now lost, and many before covid:

Debs, Next, M&S, Topshop, H&M, Body Shop, its central post office, game shops, cafes, most youth related places such as skating, bowling, carts, ALL restaurants (no exaggeration), health food stores, 2 shopping centres, most pubs, it's huge market, several banks, nightclubs, a town centre co-op, Spar, book shops, many charity shops and all of it's high end hair salons. Even the Starbucks slid off and the main post office was reduced from around 10 staff to 1 and shoved into a tiny toilet sized cubicle on the periphery of the borough.

These have been survived and replaced by - pop up eyebrow/lashes salons, fast food joints, poundshops, phone-unlocking shops, cash converter type shops, Primark (it's only remaining clothes store), Iceland, and the rest if boarded up. Interestingly a ton of privately owned car parks have taken over the area and hardly anyone uses them. It is unrecognisable from even 7 years ago. It now only attracts crime, heavy drinking, and a much less diverse population.

I know many towns have experienced closures of big brands, and things are simply changing (the net, everything online, etc) but this is really extreme, especially in comparison to a few years ago, it was not particularly suffering a decline. I do know that the council slowly sold off everything over the years, and have sent 2 huge shopping centres to their doom by selling to overseas investors who never came and filled them, so they are like enormous empty spaces that attract crime.

I don't currently live there but my remaining family that do say they never go in to town anymore, and feel forced to buy everything from standalone supermarkets in other areas.
I live in a fairly average town that has seen changes but there are also attempts at rejuvenation. Things are still ok and thriving in the centre. I am also aware that many towns are coping ok, taking the rough with the smooth, even though these issues have increased across the uk over all.

What could have happened to this one? Why so desolate and different? It is like the council just gave up sold it off and turned away. It never used to suffer so much crime, and the sound of police and ambulances is constant around the area now. The town centre was it's pride and joy, had so much put into it (festivals, events), so I can't understand how it got so bad.
Even the people who you see there now are all strangely similar (dress the same, same behaviours) and the diversity has vanished. Curiously rents are still super high and I have no idea who is taking them, if at all.

I feel sad about it because I grew up there, and have so many good memories of my teens when it was thriving, packed and full of interesting places to go and shop. The pubs were visited from far and wide, and it had a great college, access to learning, and much more culture. Now it is lucky to hold on to a handful of football clubs and that's the only interest left. Where and why did everything just die? It was previously so bloody alive.

OP posts:
MissWired · 25/05/2022 14:25

My large Northern town is exactly the same. It was never Harrogate-esque, but it was clean and safe and thriving with lots of interesting little shops and all the big chain stores had a prescence there.

Now it's a filthy run down hole with lots of boarded up / cheap tat shops, violent crime has soared, there are spice-heads draped over street furniture everywhere and it's become populated by people who are only there to see what they can screw out of the place, rather than contributing to and improving the area.

I absolutely hate it now and avoid going there unless absolutely necessary.

megletthesecond · 25/05/2022 14:26

I feel your pain. Our town down south just feels doomed. Everywhere else seems to have more community than here.

KangFang · 25/05/2022 14:26

Which town is this?

This sounds very extreme.

Acheyknees · 25/05/2022 14:27

My small town had a greengrocer, butcher and Woolworths in the centre when I moved here. All these have closed now, although all the shops are occupied, it's all coffee shops, Idependent restaurants, charity shops and nick nack shops. It seems to cater for tourists (it's very rural) but not really for locals. I rarely visit the town centre now.

BlessedByTheShitFairy · 25/05/2022 14:28

To be honest, I really like the people there, and it feels off to get too specific, even though it's easily worked out.
They don't seem happy with it, just resigned.
I'm angry for them.
There are tons of cars in the town centre, it's chaos, but they're rarely stopping there, just getting angrier and more pissed of that the roads through are chock full.

Just to add I am talking about the town centre and some areas just around it, not the outer areas. It's a big place.

And to the pp who mentioned gender, it is definitely something you can feel. If It's supply and demand then god knows.

OP posts:
ResentfulLemon · 25/05/2022 14:28

Locally our Labour council are a substantial part of the problem. The rates they set for businesses to operate are punitive, add in impossible infrastructure (can't easily drive in and park, but public transport is useless), plus ridiculous rents from commercial landlords and it's made for a perfect storm for places to literally shut up shop and become online entities only.

Fortunately we don't seem to be as badly affected as your hometown, but the decay is there to be seen and we seem to be at a tipping point on whether the area can ride this out or if the unsavoury element will make the place too risky for future investment (just for reference, the McDonalds in the centre has a bouncer for their entire opening hours - that's just nuts!)

Iamthewombat · 25/05/2022 14:29

Thinking about it, it has to be Wigan. Big market hall, empty shopping centres. I’m with you, OP: I was there last month trying to find somewhere decent to have lunch, and it was pretty desperate.

GirlInACountrySong · 25/05/2022 14:30

I think most towns are heading this way. No amount of 're-generation' can keep people going there...

I feel the same way about our town centre

They have opened a b and m but we have 2 already on out of town retail parks. With free parking.

BlessedByTheShitFairy · 25/05/2022 14:30

KangFang · 25/05/2022 14:26

Which town is this?

This sounds very extreme.

It is extreme, and more so compared to the past. If it had always been struggling like this it might make more sense.

I suppose i am emotionally close to it as grew up there, but I can't get my head around how it happened. I think a lot of people don't get it, if they haven't experienced it themselves. A few miles away it can be so very different.

OP posts:
MarshaBradyo · 25/05/2022 14:35

Just read your op in full. That is extreme

What is driving the change do you think?

BlessedByTheShitFairy · 25/05/2022 14:35

Iamthewombat · 25/05/2022 14:29

Thinking about it, it has to be Wigan. Big market hall, empty shopping centres. I’m with you, OP: I was there last month trying to find somewhere decent to have lunch, and it was pretty desperate.

You are correct. It was never a centre of high culture but I'm at a loss. It was so bloody active at one time. I hated it when young (wanted city life!) and got out after uni, but going back is upsetting. A lot of surrounding towns are similar.

I have this fear that these areas will end up devoid of anything but one large box store per town, with no infrastructure or way out for many. But then ive seen too many miserable sci-fi's..

Where did it all go? I swear to god the people there would love a functioning market, a food shop in the town centre (you cant even grab a carton of milk) and some decent places to eat and chat. Some of my family members used to go several times a week to get tea and scones at M&S. It's all been moved out to retail parks.

OP posts:
PurassicJark · 25/05/2022 14:35

I think all places are heading this way. My small city is crap, hardly any shops, mostly what you've got really. Primark is the most heavily used shop. Pubs are closing in the nearby towns, and as they are cutting public transport too, I foresee a lot of drink driving in future. So our death rate will probably increase, giving them more reason to not bother with us. Not like they did anyway.

There's no going back for Britain. We don't have imaginative people in power, we don't even have intelligence in power. Will only get worse.

ChairCareOh · 25/05/2022 14:35

This reply has been deleted

Withdrawn at the user's request

flourella · 25/05/2022 14:36

Wigan has a population of around 110,000. Even in the whole borough or wider built-up area it isn't as big as 370,000, I don't think.

Sounds terrible what's happening to this place, wherever it is. I thought my large north-west town was looking pretty bad in parts, especially since Debenhams went, but it's not quite like this.

Thehawki · 25/05/2022 14:36

Sounds identical to Birkenhead? If so everyone is going over to Liverpool to shop and ignoring Birkenhead. Used to go there as a child and it was much nicer than it is now. I barely feel safe in the centre now.

Basilbrushgotfat · 25/05/2022 14:37

It's gutting in both senses of the word, op. My hometown is also like this and it attracting a lot of anti social behaviour as a result, which deters from investment.

AbsolutelyLoveIy · 25/05/2022 14:39

I thought Birkenhead as well - went there last week for the first time in over a year and it’s really joyless and desolate

cannot believe Waterstones is still there - fully expecting that to go

we have a takky maxx and not H&M no new look any more either, it’s all gone

BlessedByTheShitFairy · 25/05/2022 14:39

MarshaBradyo · 25/05/2022 14:35

Just read your op in full. That is extreme

What is driving the change do you think?

I just don't know.
It's easy to blame Brexit, tories, and I too can't stand them, but I'm not convinced. The issues were growing long before, I think it just became worse since.

I personally blame the council, but I can't qualify that as no expert on this stuff.

OP posts:
MercurialMonday · 25/05/2022 14:39

It seems to have more people in it that a small city, not sure how that works!

When I looked more recent estimates seem to range from 470 K to 700K for Bristol population but my small city only has just under 320 K.

But back to the OP - could be the council behavior. The local council has spent some money here with with mixed results but there are several cities with good shopping nearby - another nearby town with a much more proactive council for decades and lot and lots of out of town places with free parking.

Recently it's benefited from influx of more private investment - I think sourround cities price rises are forcing more people here and money is following but it has good transport links and is near to areas with jobs. Last 30 years it's lost last of big manufactoring and TBh is still recovering - but people commute to nearby areas for work and there's lots of work at bringing people in after a big slump as many shops closed.

MzHz · 25/05/2022 14:41

I live in the south. near to a place that scores high on the best place to live blah blah.

the high street is dying, every week someone else boards up, you describe your northern town and I'm seeing it here

what started it was the council's attitude to high street parking, put the fees up, yellow lines everywhere, wardens. So people would go the the mall, they can shop in the chains there and the high street independents all suffered.

then the landlords of the mall got greedy, put the rents up, that closed a shed load of decent stores

They temporarily made the high street pedestrianised in 2020, that was a disaster, cost load of money and lost the retailers even more, caused traffic chaos. they took it out again.

BlessedByTheShitFairy · 25/05/2022 14:42

flourella · 25/05/2022 14:36

Wigan has a population of around 110,000. Even in the whole borough or wider built-up area it isn't as big as 370,000, I don't think.

Sounds terrible what's happening to this place, wherever it is. I thought my large north-west town was looking pretty bad in parts, especially since Debenhams went, but it's not quite like this.

Oh, I just googled in a rush and got this, could be wrong (???) I was not intending to mislead though. Wiki does say different, apologies.

watching a town completely die
OP posts:
Squigglesonthebear · 25/05/2022 14:42

watcherintherye · 25/05/2022 14:07

What area? Our small city in the South seems to be surviving closures because it’s quite ‘touristy’, so food and coffee outlets seem to thrive, still. We’ve lost our Debenhams, and the main post office, plus numerous smaller units are lying empty. Most people now use the PO in Waitrose on the edge of town, and I think there are a couple of mini POs in convenience stores dotted around. I feel sad when I see the large, grand old building that was our PO lying empty for years. I suppose that was the trouble - too big and rent too high.

Think I know where you mean. Does it have a world famous cathedral with a 123m spire, perchance?

mellicauli · 25/05/2022 14:44

As far as I understand it is a problem in the commercial property market. All these shops are owned by big pension companies. But the rents are too high for today's market and need to be adjusted downwards. But the companies are unwilling to take lower rents on a permanent basis because that would reduce the valuation of their assets. And there would probably be massive holes in their assets needed to back the pension.

The government needs to take action to enable small businesses to take over where the big chains have vacated - but at a reasonable rent.

It doesn't help that empty shops don't pay council tax. They should pay triple as it costs the community dearly.

Tryhard40 · 25/05/2022 14:44

The vast majority of people do online shopping nowadays 🤷‍♀️.
Public transport/parking costs contribute to people being loathe to travel to city/town centres.

Large companies like next/M&S/ boots etc buy up cheap land on the outskirts (or the developers do I mean) and turn it into retail parks.

It doesn't take a genius to realise it doesn't make financial sense for these companies to have smaller, rent guzzling by greedy councils premises.

Redburnett · 25/05/2022 14:44

It's a vicious circle. Being retired and with time to do it, I quite often go round the shops in my North West 'city' (really just a town) looking for specific items, and cannot find them. So I resort to the internet. Then the next time I want that item I buy from the internet, and so on.