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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

watching a town completely die

433 replies

BlessedByTheShitFairy · 25/05/2022 13:37

This is so sad really, the town where I grew up. I know many business folded during covid and many high street staples have been closing for years, but this is different.

It's a large town, over 400K population, had a bustling, varied and thriving centre for most it's history, has now lost, and many before covid:

Debs, Next, M&S, Topshop, H&M, Body Shop, its central post office, game shops, cafes, most youth related places such as skating, bowling, carts, ALL restaurants (no exaggeration), health food stores, 2 shopping centres, most pubs, it's huge market, several banks, nightclubs, a town centre co-op, Spar, book shops, many charity shops and all of it's high end hair salons. Even the Starbucks slid off and the main post office was reduced from around 10 staff to 1 and shoved into a tiny toilet sized cubicle on the periphery of the borough.

These have been survived and replaced by - pop up eyebrow/lashes salons, fast food joints, poundshops, phone-unlocking shops, cash converter type shops, Primark (it's only remaining clothes store), Iceland, and the rest if boarded up. Interestingly a ton of privately owned car parks have taken over the area and hardly anyone uses them. It is unrecognisable from even 7 years ago. It now only attracts crime, heavy drinking, and a much less diverse population.

I know many towns have experienced closures of big brands, and things are simply changing (the net, everything online, etc) but this is really extreme, especially in comparison to a few years ago, it was not particularly suffering a decline. I do know that the council slowly sold off everything over the years, and have sent 2 huge shopping centres to their doom by selling to overseas investors who never came and filled them, so they are like enormous empty spaces that attract crime.

I don't currently live there but my remaining family that do say they never go in to town anymore, and feel forced to buy everything from standalone supermarkets in other areas.
I live in a fairly average town that has seen changes but there are also attempts at rejuvenation. Things are still ok and thriving in the centre. I am also aware that many towns are coping ok, taking the rough with the smooth, even though these issues have increased across the uk over all.

What could have happened to this one? Why so desolate and different? It is like the council just gave up sold it off and turned away. It never used to suffer so much crime, and the sound of police and ambulances is constant around the area now. The town centre was it's pride and joy, had so much put into it (festivals, events), so I can't understand how it got so bad.
Even the people who you see there now are all strangely similar (dress the same, same behaviours) and the diversity has vanished. Curiously rents are still super high and I have no idea who is taking them, if at all.

I feel sad about it because I grew up there, and have so many good memories of my teens when it was thriving, packed and full of interesting places to go and shop. The pubs were visited from far and wide, and it had a great college, access to learning, and much more culture. Now it is lucky to hold on to a handful of football clubs and that's the only interest left. Where and why did everything just die? It was previously so bloody alive.

OP posts:
YorkshireDude · 25/05/2022 15:54

This thread is a glimpse into the future for all of us. Everything will be ordered online and delivered, so there will be no need to go out. Covid was the event that lit the blue touch paper, by forcing businesses to close, further enriching massive corporations such as Amazon.

HappyHappyHermit · 25/05/2022 15:55

@Iamthewombat I sort of agree, but it isn't fully that I don't care enough, it's the whole package making it harder, more time consuming and more expensive. I suppose you are right if that means I don't care enough, but nowadays many people have limited time and money and don't want to have to drag a small child around a car park when other options are available. I would use my town centre more if this wasn't the case.

HighlandCowbag · 25/05/2022 15:57

Not just town centres, I went to Meadowhall Shopping Centre a few months ago, really noticed that more shops/units were empty. No HofF, Debenhams, Top Shop etc.

Ferngreen · 25/05/2022 15:57

Ridiculous to blame the gov etc

It's us

We all want the cheapest price and that is bound to be online with few overheads and if all our incomes are going to Amazon, Alibaba, Etc they aren't going into the U.K. economy.
Apart from the minimum tax these companies pay.

Stands to reason there will be no shops here in the U.K. high sts.

But councils could demolish the tatty shops, make parks,cycle paths but many don't have the foresight or money for that.

Dixiechickonhols · 25/05/2022 15:58

The parking is a massive thing for me. It’s not just the cost it’s the hassle. Have I got change? Irritated if I have to pay £2 not £1.20 as I haven’t got change. Rip off if you are only there 20 mins. Will you get a ticket if you overstay accidentally etc. When parking was free for a few months post covid I popped in but haven’t been since.

Jaxhog · 25/05/2022 16:01

SheWoreYellow · 25/05/2022 13:58

One big thing that has driven the move from town centre to retail park is parking. I think there should have been some scheme to subsidise in town parking. If it was somehow free for a few hours then people would have been more inclined to go into town.

Is 400k a typo? That’s a city the size of Bristol.

It's a nice idea, but the money to subsidise it has to come from somewhere. It doesn't look like local people would be willing to foot the bill in increased local tax for this. And unless you're in the North, the Government won't have any spare.

Iamthewombat · 25/05/2022 16:01

And yes parking is a big deal. If I am paying £5 for parking but I was only going to nip in and buy a £15 fleece, it makes that fleece much more expensive.

The PP complained that it cost £5 to park in her local town for two and a half hours. I don’t know what ‘nipping’ means to you, but I’d expect a standard nip into a shop to take a lot less than 2.5 hours, wouldn’t you?

@Whyareblokesonhere ’s post was a bit bleak but has plenty of truth in it. If people are saying that they can only contemplate going into a local town centre if they can drive in and if free, convenient parking is arranged for them, they can’t be that invested in having a nice local town centre, can they? Saving a few quid is more important to them.

Incidentally, on the subject of parking costs: I met a friend in Leeds for the day last weekend. I travelled from the north west by train, she drove. Parking in the Trinity car park (attached to the big, new-ish shopping centre in the middle of the city) cost her a mint of money and the car park was rammed. So the cost of parking can’t be a deterrent for everyone, can it? It’s not as if Leeds is poorly-served by public transport either.

Lesserspottedmama · 25/05/2022 16:04

I was talking about this with DH and parents recently. About which towns have gone under and which haven’t. It seems to be the ones that have a good market, a farmers market preferably, good parking, a well stocked library that runs free activities, perhaps a free museum that runs activities, plenty of charity shops that regularly receive new stock which means people have to be able to stop outside in their car and easily drop bags off, some nice green space to wander in, maybe one of those free mini library things, a pub which has stuff going on and a nice outdoor area and feels welcoming to all, a sense community. Plenty of things growing don’t go a miss either. People are sick of Poundland’s, primarks, Iceland, savers - just cheap depressing rubbish that no one wants or needs. But ditto about the shops with the overpriced useless tut as well, cafes selling terrible overpriced coffees and terrible overpriced cake and vegan nonsense. People want REAL and they want to feel part of something, they don’t want to feel stressed, they want to be able to rest their eyes on beauty. Many town centres are hell-holes. Last time I went to one I had one of my very rare headaches from moving through crowds of people who had sprayed themselves to death with cheap body sprays.

Iamthewombat · 25/05/2022 16:05

HappyHappyHermit · 25/05/2022 15:55

@Iamthewombat I sort of agree, but it isn't fully that I don't care enough, it's the whole package making it harder, more time consuming and more expensive. I suppose you are right if that means I don't care enough, but nowadays many people have limited time and money and don't want to have to drag a small child around a car park when other options are available. I would use my town centre more if this wasn't the case.

If you go to a retail park, and park there, and walk from your parked car to shops, what are you doing if not ‘dragging a small child around a car park’?

Crazykatie · 25/05/2022 16:06

Our town has changed a lot too it’s a tourist town the town center has been transformed the many local shops have closed and been replaced with restaurants and tourist related places, local trade goes to supermarkets and shopping centers on the outskirts. Evenings have a good local restaurant and pub trade which goes well with new and converted flats and apartments walking distance from the centre.

Its very busy daytime, evenings are quite pleasant with less traffic, the neighboring large town is also improving it has more industry to give better employment opportunity.

Fizbosshoes · 25/05/2022 16:06

Our town carpark has just increased the minimum charge to £1.50. The car parks charge 7 days a week but its free to park on most roads on Sundays. What you have is cars crammed on to the free parking on the road next to empty car parks which makes it much harder to drive round/see what's coming, everyone has to wait because its effectively only single lane etc
Some towns have eg £1 to park all day on Sunday or BH but our town stubbornly persists with the same charges all day every day.

Iamthewombat · 25/05/2022 16:06

Lesserspottedmama · 25/05/2022 16:04

I was talking about this with DH and parents recently. About which towns have gone under and which haven’t. It seems to be the ones that have a good market, a farmers market preferably, good parking, a well stocked library that runs free activities, perhaps a free museum that runs activities, plenty of charity shops that regularly receive new stock which means people have to be able to stop outside in their car and easily drop bags off, some nice green space to wander in, maybe one of those free mini library things, a pub which has stuff going on and a nice outdoor area and feels welcoming to all, a sense community. Plenty of things growing don’t go a miss either. People are sick of Poundland’s, primarks, Iceland, savers - just cheap depressing rubbish that no one wants or needs. But ditto about the shops with the overpriced useless tut as well, cafes selling terrible overpriced coffees and terrible overpriced cake and vegan nonsense. People want REAL and they want to feel part of something, they don’t want to feel stressed, they want to be able to rest their eyes on beauty. Many town centres are hell-holes. Last time I went to one I had one of my very rare headaches from moving through crowds of people who had sprayed themselves to death with cheap body sprays.

Crikey! Do you like anything?

rnsaslkih · 25/05/2022 16:07

I don’t go to the town centre near me. I go to an out of town shopping place if I need to. The town centre has roads that are either one way/maze like or full of traffic and there is no parking where you need it. It isn’t rocket science. You make it difficult and/or not fun or pleasant for people, they find an alternative. I am occasionally forced to go there (hospital) and I absolutely hate it.

70kid · 25/05/2022 16:09

It’s hard to imagine this as 400k is a big city
but I can imagine smaller more local areas happening but not the whole city Centre
I do know that in Bristol’s when I visited a few months ago to see family both Debenhams and M&S were both shut down and I think when they introduce the £9 a day clean air zone in the summer this will absolutely kill the big shopping area of Cabot Circus

why would you pay £9 plus parking when you can go the Cribbs where there are the same and more ships and free parking

Desperatelyseek · 25/05/2022 16:09

My hometown is very similar and also in the NW, but it had been slowly declining for the past 10 years. I remember how busy and bustling it was and have so many happy memories there.
Whenever I go to visit my parents I think about going into the town with my dc but last time I went there was no more market, no M&S, no Debenham or body shop, pretty sure the Argos has also gone and its full of drunks.
It's really sad as my very elderly parents have to drive to the Trafford Centre for somewhere decent to shop.

Crikeyalmighty · 25/05/2022 16:10

This in my opinion is why so many people who have got enough money and flexibility and choice ,all often want to live in the same places , and why so many have moved around once far more WFH became the norm- if I'm being honest unless you are happy with a village life ,I think there are about 20 large towns or cities that still have enough daily life and activity to be actually that nice to live in - so many other places have turned into soulless , troubled, dead of atmosphere and lacking facilities to keep people there ,much as the OP described- we've moved back from Copenhagen to UK last week , and whilst we had a lot of flexibility, needed to be within a couple of hours drive of London at most and ideally closer. We actually only got our nice rental house at the 5th time of offering- the demand in 'certain ' places is still high because so many other places of all sizes have gone right down the pan.

Fanofcrisps · 25/05/2022 16:11

Hi OP, I'm also from Wigan. When reading your original description I though it sounded sadly familiar. It really is awful, I left home 20 years ago and it shocks me every time I go back, it is always worse than the last time. I'm sorry to hear so many other places are in the same crappy boat x

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 25/05/2022 16:12

Sunderland and Sheffield were the first recipients of the levelling up fund.

l live in Sheffield. The fund from levelling up was less than the amount of cuts inflicted on the council by the government. So there’s no levelling up at all.

Our city centre is decimated. Debenhams and John Lewis gone. Very quiet.

RuthW · 25/05/2022 16:12

It sounds as if you are talking about the large town I live in.

Iamthewombat · 25/05/2022 16:12

Which buildings in the centre of your local town do you think should be demolished to provide you with free parking that is not difficult/ fun & pleasant?

MarshaBradyo · 25/05/2022 16:15

In our case parking restrictions would have just overrides free residential parking

If it had happened businesses would have suffered

MooseBreath · 25/05/2022 16:16

My guess was Preston, so not too far off. It's awful what's happening to the North.

magicstar1 · 25/05/2022 16:18

My mother was in Wigan for the past week visiting an ill family member. She couldn't believe how bad it was. She was looking to get some lunch, and I think it was Asda and Sainsburys had both closed their cafes. She was asking people for directions but nobody knew a cafe / restaurant...only the McDonalds was available.

NelliesGoat · 25/05/2022 16:19

I saw this happen to my small home town back in the early 80s.
I moved away when I was a bit older, parents stayed. It started to rejuvenate a couple of years ago - so it's taken 35 years. I fear that the current financial situation will cause another downward spiral.
The town is not far from places mentioned, it's part of Greater Manchester

HappyHappyHermit · 25/05/2022 16:19

@Iamthewombat There is no need to be so confrontational, I am merely explaining my multiple reasons for not using certain car parks. I'm sure in your life you have good reasons for things you do or don't do, you don't have to agree with mine but they are what they are.