WIBU to ask why people are so weird about cry it out?

[Worried675]

OK, I know already how this is going to go and what views about this are on Mumsnet, but my question I guess is why people are so against cry it out methods? Recent research showed no differences in babies' behaviour/happiness/attachment etc. between cry it out and other sleep training methods. I'm always surprised by how strongly people are against it, especially as anyone born in the 80s or before probably were trained that way.

Enlighten me! Is using cry it out unreasonable? Why/why not?

Would you leave an adult crying inconsolably in a room to teach them a lesson?

I'd be way more likely to leave an adult crying alone than a baby. I didn't do CC or CIO. But I don't think comparing it to an adult crying is the same thing. If I'm crying in a room, sometimes I just want to be left to CIO, I don't necessarily want or need my husband, for example, running in and trying to comfort me. I wouldn't say it is abusive, it depends on the adult.

Completely agree with you @SnackSizeRaisin

@ShirleyPhallus It was incredibly effective. The two 3-hour bursts were before hippie woo sleep training, obviously. She slept through afterwards. Nothing in the world persuaded my DD to sleep through: not night weaning, not self settling. Which is another reason I’m against CIO: all that misery and it might not even work.

Well I never managed it! Just couldnt relax if hearing LO upset . I was born late 60s and never left to cry !

My dd was a bad sleeper from birth till about 4.5 (6 now and loves her bed/room - there is hope people currently going through it!). Co-sleeping was the solution for us all getting some decent sleep but I tried so many things to crack her sleep over the years and simply nothing else worked.

Methods involving crying/whinging never worked and I look back at those attempts with the distinct feeling it was a waste of time and needless distress for everyone involved. My dd never whinged/grumbled - she got more and more upset to the point of hysteria and making herself sick whilst everyone around me insisted she’d learn to self settle and brushed off the fact that once she was that distressed it took a long time to calm her down because no one leaves a baby/toddler once they’re in that state. She also cat napped for 10-20 mins and would be fully ready to go again. Naps at childcare were in a buggy - never managed to successfully transfer her from buggy to bed without her waking!

I really think the babies for who these methods are successful are wired in a way that makes it an option, I would like to see more acknowledgement that it’s not universal though and some dc simply don’t fit these methods. My experience was that ‘training’ was seen as the last resort and there’s simply no question it would be successful - it’s just not true for everyone.

I remember one holiday where my sil’s insisted they could put dd(about 2) to bed . Between them they had five dc and professional childcare experience. They couldn’t.

Everyone going on about taking naps with their baby ... How is that possible for parents who have more than one child at home needing them? Or those that have to go to work during the day after being woken up every 30-60 mins at night, so catching up on sleep during the day... When?

The effects of extreme sleep deprivation should not be understated. It can make a mother depressed, irritable, effect the bond she has with the baby, make her feel resentment and anger towards the baby, falling asleep while caring for the baby, falling asleep at the wheel, and if the mum already has some mental health difficulties such as PND (or any other psychiatric issues) than symptoms rating to delusions and psychosis are so far more likely.

There is an argument that could be it is not in the baby's best interests for the mother to be in such a state.

I don’t think anyone has said they were woken up hourly but swanned through the work day, have they? Certainly I remember just free-floating through work for a year or so, making the kind of errors I never would have done before children. I had skin like a corpse and a tip of a house, but we muddled through and all managed. Not every work year has to be goals goals goals and smashing it, sometimes you’re allowed to coast.

Performance at work being effected might not be so bad depending on your work. If you're a driver of any sort, or operate heavy machinery, or are a nurse or a doctor, or anything that involves needing to be exact, aware, able to react quickly, lest you kill/injure yourself or others, the stakes are much higher...

Affected

I'm sure my manager at work would have loved it if I had put my head on the desk and had a little nap at work. Quite frankly, I could have done that when my oldest was waking up during the night. He was perfectly happy to holler till I went to him, and would then decide to drop off while I was then wide awake. I did controlled crying almost accidentally. My DH was away I was knackered, baby screaming; I sat at the bottom of the stairs exhausted thinking 'I'll just have 5 minutes', struggled to my feet and realized there was silence. Into his room, wondering what I would find, and he was fast asleep. I know I was lucky because after that he settled himself, and we were all happy. I had no hesitation doing it with the next one.

CIO or controlled crying or something else though? There's a huge range in that.

I wouldn't do CIO, but we did do the 'pause' thing from a few weeks old - where you observe the baby for a few seconds before you lift to feed. We found she'd often stir, sigh and grunt (or fart!) then settle back into sleep. If we'd lifted her to feed we'd have woken her up and also taught her to wake up fully at those moments, rather than settling herself? If she did start to show hunger cues we'd lift and feed. She slept through by eight weeks old.

I also had a safe place in each room to put her down. So if I wanted to take a shower, I'd feed and change her first, then pop her in the bouncy chair near the cubicle door so she could see the water running down the doors and I could see her and she could hear me talking to her. Sometimes she'd babble away to herself, sometimes she'd grizzle. I got out the one time she howled, but otherwise let her get on with it. Initially she'd only be happy for a few minutes but that time increased.

And if we'd needed to we would have sleep trained after six months. I've seen the consequences of not doing so - colleague crashed her car on the motorway after months of sleepless nights with her baby. Sleep deprivation is also terrible for mental health - I had severe PND so one of our priorities was getting enough sleep.

I used cry it out whether 18 months, before that was pick up put down method.

Going in when mine cries at bedtime makes them so much worse.

Do what works for you and your child. Ignore everyone else

Exactly. Or for some people, they have to get back to work and actually be able to perform well and need a decent rest.

I can’t understand the martyr attitude of letting the baby rule the roost when there are so many other family members needs to consider, and controlled crying results in far less crying overall and more sleep for everyone

I've no studies/ research to produce and a child of the 90s I possibly was left to cry it out IDK. But when my baby is born if he needs me I will be there to comfort him I do know that. I couldn't let my dog 'cry it out' when he arrived into the house as a tiny puppy. He is a happy, contented little dog now who knows we love him and will be there for him. I hope the same will be true of my ds. Yes I know dogs aren't babies!

Some jobs, where patients or clients rely on you, mean that's not an option, though. Would you want your surgeon to have only had four hours' sleep the night before your surgery? Or your bus driver? Or your kid's teacher?

What convinced me, personally, that it was not right for my baby was

the fact they stop crying because they realise you're not coming

the fact they have no object permanence and can't know that they aren't all alone and in real danger

the fact their cortisol levels raise and don't go down for weeks

and it just didn't feel right for my baby to be crying at all really, why would I want them to cry if I can help it? So she slept with me. When she woke during the night she would open her eyes, see me, and go right back to sleep. I knew that was how it was meant to be. I was happy, she was happy.

I don't try to influence others though. My parenting choices are different and are focused on keeping my baby happy, which I'm sure all mothers' are.

Fortunately most (obviously not all) children have a mum and a dad so neither need to drive themselves to the brink of insanity with sleep deprivation.

And whilst I had a bottle refusing bf baby/child, even if all hell would break loose is he did night comforting, he could take her at other times so I could catch up.

Its going to be pretty rare that you've got:

Single parent with uninvolved father
+
Terrible sleeper
+
Co sleeping doesn't help
+
Sleep that continues to be dire after maternity leave
+
Highly responsible job
+
Mum struggles to cope to the extent she's a danger to herself and others

Some of those maybe, but it'll be rates that it's all of them.

There are absolutely circumstances where needs must, but that's not doing it at 6m or because the toddler wakes a couple of times.

At that time, I was working in a senior management role that involved managing services for vulnerable people. Yes, I was bloody knackered but I was able to keep going because I had no choice. My manager was more than happy with what I was delivering, and I got promoted during that time, so I must have been doing OK.

I think I'm better at coping with sleep deprivation than some, though, and I appreciate that this probably made a difference. I used to volunteer on night shifts at a homeless shelter when I was a student and then carry on with my studies during the day, so I was used to functioning without much sleep. Plus I had never really been a rigid sort of routine type person anyway.

The relentless nature of having a small baby that didn't sleep was certainly very difficult, but I managed to just get on with it somehow. DH did what he could to help, too, though it was difficult for him to take an equal share as I was breastfeeding.

Of course, it's harder if you're a single parent. And it would be dangerous if you were driving for a living or working as a surgeon or operating heavy machinery etc. Lots of people can and do just manage to get on though.

Regardless of whether it harms the baby or not (which is obviously the most important thing but is difficult to prove either way) it would be too distressing for me. With my DD we've had to use the "leave crying for five minutes, soothe, leave for ten minutes, soothe, 20 minutes, etc" method and even though I don't think she ever got to the end of 20 minutes I still found it very upsetting.

I left mine to cry - not when they were all out bawling and needed something but when they were cosy, dry, fed, winded etc and might actually stop and go to sleep. Obviously then if they didn't and it got worse I'd pick them up and try and get them to settle again. You get to know different types of cries.

Also sometimes when they were crying and I was knackered I needed to go and have a little cry myself in another room before picking them up.

I might change my mind when baby is born but right now I'm not against it at all. I actually think it's a good idea, not necessarily to have them sleep through the night but learn how to self soothe. Though I am talking more about with checks which seems more common.

I'm keeping an open mind since I might feel differently when baby arrives and it will also depend on the baby too.

Leaving a baby to cry is distressing for everyone. The parent, the baby, the neighbours.
It really should be an absolute last resort.
We are supposed to be nice to our babies ideally

Yes, a puppy is a baby. A calf is a baby, etc. They are babies too.

@Babyboomtastic
Fortunately most (obviously not all) children have a mum and a dad so neither need to drive themselves to the brink of insanity with sleep deprivation.

And whilst I had a bottle refusing bf baby/child, even if all hell would break loose is he did night comforting, he could take her at other times so I could catch up.*

I can't speak for everyone else, but personally I found it impossible to sleep while DD was screaming her head off even if DH was soothing her. The only way I could get sleep was if she wasn't crying. Fortunately in our case DH could usually soothe DD just fine and I could get some shut-eye but there are times when a baby will only settle for mum (or indeed dad).

Leaving a baby to cry is distressing for everyone. The parent, the baby, the neighbours

Unfortunately for the neighbours, babies cry whether or not someone is leaving them to cry.