WIBU to ask why people are so weird about cry it out?

[Worried675]

OK, I know already how this is going to go and what views about this are on Mumsnet, but my question I guess is why people are so against cry it out methods? Recent research showed no differences in babies' behaviour/happiness/attachment etc. between cry it out and other sleep training methods. I'm always surprised by how strongly people are against it, especially as anyone born in the 80s or before probably were trained that way.

Enlighten me! Is using cry it out unreasonable? Why/why not?

I don't think you realise how bad some babies are. If it was a case of quick feed every few hours and back to sleep then there would be little need for sleep training. My first baby was like that and never even considered it. I had a similar attitude to you probably. The second one, despite cosleeping in my arms and breastfeeding on demand, plus having tried everything, woke screaming every 20-90 minutes for the first 6 months. I hated to do it but I did, and after 3 nights of controlled crying, with probably less crying in total than a normal night, my baby could sleep all night with only a couple of wakes.

@SleeplessInEngland As I said in my post, I was knackered, who are you to try and measure how tired/ desperate? It wasn't luck actually it was, napping with him, Co sleeping, meeting his needs.

Not very efficient sleep training was the hippy woo stuff then ey

It really isn't that people don't realise how bad it can get. Waking for a feed and then going back to sleep for a few hours would have been a dream! Mine woke hourly for most of the first year. She went through phases when she wouldn't sleep for longer than half an hour at at time. I was back at work and it was bloody torture. However, I wasn't prepared to go down the route of leaving her to cry, no matter how bad it got. Fair enough if that's what felt right to you, but it just wasn't the way I wanted to parent my child. We ended up co-sleeping, and though it didn't completely resolve the sleep issues, it enabled me to get through that period.

I think a lot of it depends on the age of the baby.

By crying they are communicating that they need something. Ignoring the crying is to me ignoring your baby’s needs.

I don't not understand the reluctance. I'm just interested by the strength of people's reactions. I've not used the method myself, but I don't feel that strongly against it, especially the controlled crying one. I'd probably try it if I thought I needed to try something and other things weren't working. I guess what I mean is that I understand people saying, oh that's not for me, but I find it a bit surprising the level of reaction, for example, against a parent who says they've tried it.

This article is a balanced look at research pros and cons. The recent research I'll have to look for as I came across it somewhere in the news but didn't bookmark it. It was this week or last week, I think.

www.bbc.com/future/article/20220322-how-sleep-training-affects-babies

"Those saying it's harmful to suggest a baby left to cry will develop a disturbed attachment (they might, and they might not - no way of knowing in advance for each individual child, so why take the risk?), what about the opposite narrative, the one that suggests if a baby isn't sleep 'trained' they'll never learn to sleep?"

In the torture of sleep deprevation you don't know how long that'll last though. A year? Two? Five? There are no shortage of threads in the sleep section who've had to endure that long, or longer.

Very easy to be judgemental when you're on the other side, not staring at that seemingly endless abyss. At what point does it become irresponsible to not try chainging anything even though your sleep deprivation is making you a worse parent in the day? Not to mention their sleep deprevation and what damage that could be doing.

I never had situation where I had to leave a baby crying. Why would I, unless I was laying on the floor with a broken leg unable to get to them.

I'd judge someone for using CIO. I'd think you weren't a good parent if you were able to let your child cry for god knows how long. I could never do that to my child. So basically they stop crying because no-one comes when they need them. No fucking chance would I do that to my daughter. And I was born in the 80s and I was never left to cry either.

@Mumwantingtogetitright

If there's no evidence that its harmful by 18 months why would that change as a teen or adult?

emotionally distancing themselves from their child to that extent and who believes that it's OK to do that.

what does that actually mean?

I also never had sleep deprivation with either of my two children as I took naps dyeing the day and always felt refreshed.

You clearly have no idea if your baby napped long enough for you to nap with him. We are talking about babies who nap for 20 minutes at a time day and night. And parents who have to work and may have other children. They can't just laze around all day having naps.

Yes, this makes sense. I guess I was referring to controlled crying, not just shutting the door and walking away.

The pure fact that you could nap with your baby when tired puts it in a different league of tiredness compared to someone who’s baby wakes hourly but they are out at work or have other responsibilities that mean they cannot catch up on any sleep in the day.

I hate this black and white thinking that sleep training is not “meeting your babies needs”.

Wow, you got to take naps in the day? Luxury!

We did controlled crying with both of ours. I think this is what most people actually mean when they refer to ‘cry it out’ - I wouldn’t have been able to just let ours cry and cry without going in to check on them. But that being said, our children did cry when we sleep trained. And boy am I an advocate of it.

Until we sleep trained at 6 months, both our children were at a point where they were waking and crying hourly. Sometimes I could just feed them to resettle them, but waking hourly unsurprisingly most of the time they weren’t hungry and so needed rocking back to sleep, which could take an hour at a time. My husband and I were on our knees. Friends suggested sleep training and we gave it a go. Followed Ferber. Yes it wasn’t nice to hear them cry, but with both our children, they went from waking hourly and screaming for much of the night for months, to sleeping 12 hours straight. For both of them it took 2 DAYS. They’ve both slept through since. One is 2.5, the other is 9months. We did it for naps at the same time - I just put my previously contact only napping 9month old into his cot awake, he gave me a big smile, I closed the door and 5 minutes later he’s drifted off.

This was categorically one of the best parenting decisions we made. We became better parents overnight. We had the energy to play and laugh and have fun with our children. Our children sleep well, wake up refreshed, nap well and are happy and healthy. They are not waking multiple times in the night feeling scared and alone and having to cry out for mummy and daddy. Kids who have to do that for years strikes me as much more harmful long term for anxiety etc than 2 nights of tears at 6 months. Our children know we are there if they need us. The second they cry in the day we swoop in with kisses and cuddles. If they cry in the night now, we know there is something actually wrong and are in in a snap with cuddles, medicine or whatever is needed (this might happen once every few months).

So yes, I’ll say it, in my opinion and for our children and family not sleep training would have been the cruel thing to do.

If you could successfully co-sleep then I'd say you had a decent sleeper. Lucky you.

@ElenaSt

Youre in the loo? Youre cooking? Youre busy? Driving?

You have another kid also screaming?

You know its better for them in the longer term?

Always seemed bizarre to me to leave a baby to cry.

I held them close for as long as they would let me. Can confirm that now as stinky teenagers other than the occasional bear hug as they go past the have moved on from needing cuddles/cosleeping.

They do still appear to need constant feeding though.

Its also laughable that those against ST are also most likely to co sleep but have the cheek to talk about risk and harm

Yes, also this. Totally agree - if both parents had a year off, I doubt so many people would even be thinking about sleep training. I, too, had to go back to work when my baby was young. Luckily, she's a naturally good sleeper (at least so far), but I would have needed to try something if she hadn't been. There's no way I could have functioned in the type of job I do if I was up every few hours at night with a baby. I would have killed myself trying (and affected other people, too, at my work).

What about parents who leave their children crying every time they are dropped off at nursery? Or who drive places with a screaming baby in a car seat? Are they also causing attachment issues?
Attachment problems are much more likely to happen if the mother is depressed due to exhaustion, or if the parental relationship breaks down, than through a few nights of sleep training

I think it might have been this. I can't remember now! Going through my Google history to try to find it!

I’d also love to know what jobs people do that mean they can be woken up hourly throughout the night and it not affect their performance at work 🤔

So you didn't have to work or look after another child and your babies took long enough naps for you to sleep. That's great for you. But surely you can see that most people are not so lucky?