WIBU to ask why people are so weird about cry it out?

[Worried675]

OK, I know already how this is going to go and what views about this are on Mumsnet, but my question I guess is why people are so against cry it out methods? Recent research showed no differences in babies' behaviour/happiness/attachment etc. between cry it out and other sleep training methods. I'm always surprised by how strongly people are against it, especially as anyone born in the 80s or before probably were trained that way.

Enlighten me! Is using cry it out unreasonable? Why/why not?

Yes, as I said, I had one of those. We do worked as a team to try and find ways of me shoehorning more sleep into my life and him taking as much of the strain off me in other ways as possible.

I was absolutely knackered though still, but that didn't leave that leaving her to cry was a viable alternative to me.

Because it's shit parenting.

I was an 80s baby. I was never left to cry it out. Even when I had colic and still cried when held and everyone told my mum to just leave me in the crib she still held me. Turns out that was the right thing to do. Blows my mind that people think a baby crying being responded to and being ignored is the same experience for them. No-one would think this about a two year old so why think it about when they're little and more vulnerable? Because they can't talk and people apparently have no imagination?

I know some people are driven to a point where they have no choice but to try something like CIO, and I can sympathise. My DC was a terrible sleeper. But let's not pretend it's optimal or insignificant to the child.

People hardline about sleep training imo haven’t experienced terrible sleep and having to get on with life

Wrong, actually.

Because comfort is a need too.

I always want to be able to respond to my child's needs. That's literally my job as a mother.

I left my DC to cry it out once and I can't forgive myself for it. I had PND/A and I was beyond stressed and sleep deprived. I remember him crying for hours.

This was one time. Be careful if you decide to do because when you find out how detrimental it is to them you won't forgive yourself either.

Crying is their only form of communication so if you ignore it you're teaching them that they can't trust their primary care giver (you) to meet their needs and if you they can't trust you who can they trust...

They're crying for a reason. It's so stressful so if you're emotionally unregulated move to another room and focus on your breathing. When you are regulated try again to met their needs.

There is an impact, but the observable differences go away in later childhood.

My biggest concern is that I do not think it is good for parents to accustom themselves to ignoring their dc's distress. Children need parents to help them co-regulate their emotions, not leave them to cope alone.

Absolutely!

Research the different types of attachment issues.

Adults with avoidant attachment have usually had a childhood where their needs consistently haven't been met.

This was one time. Be careful if you decide to do because when you find out how detrimental it is to them you won't forgive yourself either.

How did you discover it was detrimental? What did you discover that researchers didn't?

People hardline about sleep training imo haven’t experienced terrible sleep and having to get on with life

This is not true. Both my dc were awful sleepers, and the first 18 months of their lives were a dark and difficult time because of the sleep deprivation. Neither reliably slept through until 3.

What I now know (but didn't know then) is that this was related to a physical issue and they were in pain.

I am very proud that they were never left to cry in pain alone and uncomforted. It was hard, but I feel we made the right decision but continuing to comfort them, no matter how tired we were.

Research attachment issues.

John Bowlby was the founder of the attachment theory.

@Bambi7

Adults with avoidant attachment have usually had a childhood where their needs consistently haven't been met.

needs consistently haven't been met being the important bit of that sentence. There has to be consistent, sustained, abuse and neglect.

Not a few nights of st where all other needs are met.

Sleep is a need too.

There needs to be some nuance to this topic.

I had bad sleepers who I didn't sleep train but as a result my mental health nosedived, I would spend a lot of time in a state of flight or fight due to sleep deprivation and regularly lose my rag during the day. I'm not convinced this is necessarily the better option for everyone.

It's cruel, it's unnatural, it teaches babies that no one comes when they cry.

Once DS was around 14 months we used a variation of Ferber where he let him cry for 5, 7, 9, 11 min at a time. He never lasted 9 because he knew he was safe and loved and he was old enough to understand bed time.

Sleep training small babies is basically neglect

My benchmark for a good/bad sleeper is whether they can co-sleep. If they can do that sufficiently enough for mother and baby to get enough hours then that mother's opinion on whether sleep training is cruel/unecessary doesn't hold much weight to me. Co-sleeping is a really nice option to have if it works for you.

I only mention it as there have been quite a few posters berating CIO and then casually adding that they coslept instead. Yeah, you did that because you could.

But I'm not saying that letting your child cry it out once or twice is going to result in attachment issues.

I'm answering the posters question about the cry it out method.

And actually it doesn't need to be abuse to result in attachment issues. If you're consistently not meeting your child's needs (ie the cry it out method) then yes that will result in some attachment issues. They're learning that their basic needs won't be met by their primary caregiver.

@Bambi7

That makes no sense.

Research attachment issues.

Why don't you give me the abridged version. You brought it up, after all.

@Bambi7

Except thats not true.

There's no evidence cio (in the context of a st method in a non abusive home) leads to attachment issues

It was the other way around in my experience, sharing a bed was never something I had a preference for (or indeed had much irl support for). Sleep training didn’t work for us but cosleeping did and came about after many failures to get dd to sleep alone.

Well I don't know how else to explain it to you

I'm a therapist.

You don't have to agree with me or understand what I'm saying (I'm not here to do your homework).

Please do you your own research but use the appropriate research databases and tools x

And that's great - but as you say you did try co-sleeping first. My post was for the people who would never dream of it, for the aformentioned reasons.

^sorry, meant to say you tried sleep training first

@Cornettoninja

It was the other way around in my experience, sharing a bed was never something I had a preference for (or indeed had much irl support for). Sleep training didn’t work for us but cosleeping did and came about after many failures to get dd to sleep alone.

This was my experience too.

But the Ferber method (for example which is CC not CIO) usually only takes a few days to work for the baby to sleep through. So how is that “consistently not meeting the baby’s needs”? If you spend every other waking minute and hour meeting their needs for 9/10/11 months how does a few nights of leaving them to cry and going back a few minutes later damage them?