To ask for advice? I’m out of my depth…

[Chocbuttonsandredwine]

Totally honest, posting here for traffic. Apologies:

ill try and keep it brief:

DS is 15, single parent although dad lives a close by and we have a fine relationship. No issues: no other kids. Wonderful kid, no problems, grade A’s, goes out to football, no where else.

last week I discovered that ds had taken £5 from my purse. He denied but eventually admitted. There was another £10
that was unaccounted for which he wouldn’t admit to. I was really shocked and disappointed as this was our first real “incident”. Tried to move on however after suitable punishment:

Parents evening tonight and it transpires he’s been caught forging a letter to pe teacher to excuse himself from PE and forging my signature: no idea why as he’s fit, plays football and enjoys sport. Teacher disappointed, as am I.

I speak to his dad about it (he knows about last weeks money), we chat and I say I do T really understand where any of this is come from. He’s got plenty of money in his bank, we have a good relationship and it’s just odd. And disappointing… blah blah

However, about 6 months ago I had some work done in the house. Took money out to pay builders and at the end was about £400 short. At the time I thought I’d over paid/miscounted. I mentioned this to his dad, and said that now it kinda throws an uncertainty over the money and he said that similar had happened at his house, and that money he’d been saving fo Holidays etc was potentially £1k down…. Although he couldn’t be certain. Neither of us are actually certain… but with everything else it all just seems a bit odd. And horrible. And I actually don’t know what to do. My lovely kind funny boy who’s a modal student and never been in any trouble at all is now looking like a liar, thief and god knows what else.

his dad is coming over tomorrow night so we can talk to him about it, he doesn’t know anything just know, I feel awful for suspecting him, and awful that he might have stolen £1400 from us. He never goes anywhere or does anything without us so I’ve got no actual clue where the Mike’s could be if it was him. I guess it might not be him… and then things are awful too.

its such a mess ☹️

If he is addicted to a game, then skipping PE would be a good opportunity to get a bit more time to play it.

Is he on his phone a lot? Could the reason he doesn't leave the house much be that he is playing games in his bedroom?

I would be worried he is being pressurised to do it by a third party might explain why you don’t see him spend it or it’s on electronic games to keep up with his friends.
does he get pocket money?

You can't spend money on s game or gambling if you don't cash the money in, and OP can see from the lad's bank statements that he hasn't done that. Since it's still cash, he can only spend it in places he physically is, which is a rather limited list. If he really did take the money, he's probably spending it at school.

But most likely he hasn't taken the money at all. If you accuse him op and he's innocent, he'll remember it and resent it for life. I still remember being wrongly accused of much much lesser things as a teen.

If he doesn't want his mum to know, and she checks his bank statements, there are plenty of ways he could be doing it. He might be giving the money to a school friend and using their account, for example.

There is very little else he could be spending that amount of money on if not drugs (which seems pretty unlikely as he is mostly at home and not stoned). What would he be spending it on at school, if he isn't coming home with any new stuff?

We don't know what's going on or whether he has taken the money, but it's worth looking into the signs on the YGAM website that I linked to (parents.ygam.org/gambling-advice/spotting-signs-of-potential-harm/)

It's obvious that you don't accuse him of stealing money. But you need to try and get to the root of what he might be doing with it if he is, and looking out for signs of problematic gaming/ gambling is worth doing.

I think most teens have taken a few £s at times. He definitely should of asked you for the £5 but I don’t think it’s that concerning that he took it.

With the note for skipping PE I think a lot of teens have also done this, when I was at school most people did this now and then. I don’t think this is awful behaviour. I would try to find out why though if he is usually sporty. It sounds like he could be getting bullied.

I think it’s a jump to go from taking £5 (he probably didn’t see it as stealing) and trying to skip PE to stealing £1400. You can’t be certain so I wouldn’t accuse him, I’d watch him closely as if he did take it he’s likely to do it again but I wouldn’t say anything as it could ruin your relationship with him.

Id probably have a look in his room to make sure it’s not stashed there or there’s not any drugs (please don’t make it obvious and do it when he’s not in). Also check his gaming accounts as he could of used the cash to buy gift cards then be redeeming these online.

I disagree with everyone, I think you can and should mention the £400 and the £1000, in relation to the £5 and £10, the PE forgery. Not in a definite way, but casually:
"when the £5 happened dad remembered that he thought he might be down on holiday money, and I wondered/worried if it was a bigger issue, also remembering the building work money...."

There does appear to be something going on at least. It is possible for example, he's desperate to spend on the x box, and using the cash to buy x box vouchers/top up card?

@Bournetilly Good point about gaming gift cards. You can walk into any supermarket and buy a card which can be redeemed on Apple Store, XBox, Playstation, Steam etc.

Does he have a console or gaming PC?

Coalcraft you can use the cash to buy an x box card with a code on it, that you redeem, from sainsburys.

I agree not to accuse him of stealing the ones you aren't sure about. But I think they're could be a value in letting him see your sadness and disappointment on the ones you do know, and admitting it casts doubt on those incidents you are not sure of looking back because you now can't feel confident it wasn't him.
Letting him see that losing your trust and his good reputation is at risk might be the shock he needs to inhibit the impulse (if that's what it was) and resist temptation next time he sees some money.
Based on the stuff you know for sure you can highlight, that when stuff goes missing it will create doubt on him if he has been known to steal and that he is creating a situation where his innocence can no longer be assumed.
If he did steal the large sums you are now doubtful about, is there any possibility he has been groomed online and is sending the money to someone to 'help' them or some such scam?

I agree with this

You know he tried to skip PE (for 4 weeks) so start here

Please don't mention the £1400 yet - you simply have no idea what happened to the money and if you wrongly accuse him you will destroy him

Keep an eye on money going forward. Do it properly. Don't leave it lying about and account for every £

Hi, @Chocbuttonsandredwine

It sounds as though you have a good relationship with your boy.
I know I’ve always had a terrible conscience, and I learned long, long ago that taking things (even if I could get away with it) just wasn’t worth what my conscience would do to me.
When you and your ex talk with your son, calmly and rationally, do you think asking him ”is there anything you want to tell us? Now would be a good time — we can work it all out together.” Or something along those lines, might he open up?
Maybe it is something serious and he’s afraid to tell you — and it would be awful if he was afraid to tell you because he was afraid of being punished. You know?
I completely understand why you both are suddenly questioning yourselves about the $1400 — you’ve learned a lesson too, yes?
I hope all will be well.

I'm not even saying Xbox is even the problem here but it is very very easy (and addictive/thrilling) to get cash, buy x box card, redeem it and then start buying things for you games eg buying Ronaldo for FIFA football team etc, and you can spend £50 in a matter of minutes.

Letting him see that losing your trust and his good reputation is at risk might be the shock he needs to inhibit the impulse (if that's what it was) and resist temptation next time he sees some money

@TopCatsTopHat See I'm really not sure that this is true.

It sounds like he's a good kid and if he is taking the money then whatever he is doing with it must obviously have a very strong pull for him.

There are ways of finding out what might be at the root of this without actually mentioning that a large sum of money has gone missing.

As PP suggested for example, start with asking him why he didn't want to do PE.

What else is going on in his life? Do you really know what his experience is day to day? What does he do in his bedroom/ at home? What's his social life like?

Really unpicking that stuff will be so much more helpful than trying to work out whether he did or didn't actually steal the money.

check his phone… in detail…

I think he’s been buying gaming cards maybe? Do you have access to his online gaming account? My son’s is linked to my email address so I know when anything is added/purchased. He did go through a stage of buying things on there without asking me which I wasn’t happy about as my card is also linked to his account.

I would tread very carefully about accusing him of taking £1400 as if you’ve got that wrong I think it will damage yours and his father’s relationship with him.

Do you track his phone so you know exactly where he is when he’s out? I do this via Snapchat with my teens, not to be intrusive but I work with young people who’ve committed very serious offences or are involved in county lines so this reassures me they are where they say they are (usually at a friend’s house tbh) x

I think that assuming he will immediately open up and tell you all about it, if you mention the missing money, if you accuse him of it or whatever, is naive. Whatever he's doing: be it stealing small amounts and not wanting to do PE at school, or something much more nefarious, he is being secretive and that's a concern. I agree with PPs who've said to keep reassuring him you care for him and just generally be there for him. It strikes me that something is going on that he doesn't feel he can tell you about and these things can quickly escalate.

If he's a good kid who casually picked up a fiver on impulse then yes him recognising it matters could inhibit I think, I did similar and my parent's disappointment and risking losing their trust made a difference.
Obviously if he's stealing the big sums that's different and knowing what's going on would be vital. There is a middle ground between accusing him of that and taking about it though, like Oblomov22 said.

Yes @Backtoblack1 we cross-posted. I imagine the young people you worked with started on a very small scale and thought they could handle it, then found they were in too deep and actually couldn't. Hence OP needs to keep a close eye and a close relationship with her son now, before anything can escalate. Good luck OP!

Mine did similar. Turned out they were trying to keep up with more affluent mates (which then turned into weed, but by the by) I It was a quid here and there then it spiralled.

Well this is the problem with stealing. No one trusts you. You should tell him all about this.

honestly I was light fingered as hell as a kid. Got caught and that stopped my life of crime - thank god!

Your son should understand all of this. He’s not daft. I very very much suspect he’s involved. No one gets caught stealing first time OP.

This a 100%.

There is no real evidence.. And it could easily be human error from you and your xh.

As someone else said, it's a completely leap from nicking a fiver and stealing 1400£.

I'd have been appalled if I had been falsely accused of stealing by my parents. It would have caused a major rupture in our relationship. I'm unsure whether being accused of dishonesty would ever be mended.

I would NOT challenge him... Just keep a loving eye on him.

You say he doesn't go out/do stuff...
Is there any chance he's being blackmailed by other kids/online gambling /buying digital packs online for games etc?

Oh and I can tell you, pinching £5 off my mum was very much the tip of the iceberg.

If the card is a Go Henry sort of card they are hard to use in convenience stores etc because they can't be used in shops that sell any adult goods such as alcohol or cigarettes. I have to give my kids some change for snacks on the way home as the cards don't work so just saying his excuse does make sense.

He's probably been helping himself without realising it's wrong and that he needs to ask. Maybe come up with a agreed amount in cash in lieu of money in bank and the problem might just go away. Id say the larger amounts are very unlikely to be him unless something more serious is going on. Hope the conversation goes ok.

The question is do you care about the money or do you care about supporting/ safeguarding your son?

Lots of posters on here focussing on whether he did or didn't steal it as the most important thing.

The most important thing isn't the money, it's whatever is going on in your son's life.

So the best approach is not to accuse him of stealing, but to try and get to know him better.

Yes, they did start out on a small scale. But that quickly turned into them ‘owing’ money to some very dangerous people who then exposed them to some unimaginable horrors. It does go on and on a much larger scale than we are aware of.

Would you say your son is vulnerable OP as these are the type of children targeted by county lines?

I don’t want to alarm you at all and it could be that he’s been buying gaming cards. Or it could be that the £1400 is nothing to do with him. Either way, you need to get to the bottom of his behaviour. Good luck x