Boys in girls changing at swimming

[TonksInPurple]

This is not a trans issue!

my daughter 11 attends swimming lessons at a hotel pool there are several parents who insist on helping there boys age 9/10/11 in the girls open plan changing room. The hotel’s suggestion is that my daughter and her friend change in the disabled changing room.
So the girls should be pushed out there own space. The boys have no additional needs but surely if they did they should use the disabled changing room.

This is a hotel swimming pool where children's swimming lessons are taking place. It is vanishingly unlikely the changing rooms are full of naked men.

I am a lone parent of a son and a daughter. By the time my son was old enough to get changed on his own, we switched to ones in a school so there were only other boys in there, no adult men.

I’m really surprised at people suggesting 9 is an appropriate cut off age. Surely 7 is the max (SN aside). My 5 year old can manage to get showered, undressed and changed after swimming with no fuss at all (other than being a bit slow as they gaff around). Surely the vast majority of 7 year olds can do this?

Towel over the head is your answer but also why is it less embarrassing than flashing a dressing room full of girls/women? no the discussion was boys being expected to dress poolside whilst girls must have a changing room because "boys are easier, they don't need to get properly dressed or have a shower or privacy, they aren't GIRLS after all".
The answer is proper changing spaces for everyone which are safe, not telling boys they don't deserve privacy because they're only boys. No one would (rightly) countenance telling girls to change poolside because their privacy doesn't matter. My long haired son comment was in response to the "girls have long hair so need a changing room!" which is clearly nonsense as they can just put a towel on their head. And if a towel around them offered proper privacy, neither would need changing rooms.

The 8+ boys should be getting changed in the disabled changing rooms if their DPs aren't comfortable with them in the male changing rooms.
I have to say if I was a guest at the hotel or a gym member as an adult female I wouldn't expect to have to share my space with age 8+ boys , I'm surprised they haven't had more complaints about this.

He could, although I'd have to shout through the door to hurry up. But did you miss the whole conversation about boys being more vulnerable around naked adult males either in terms of abuse or them just refusing to step in of anything happens in case they're accused of abuse? I had grown men tell me to come into the men's loos rather than them direct my 6 into a cubicle. They then all used cubicles so I could come and go without seeing their penis. I doubt women would do the same if I girl was standing in the loos asking where to go. (first time alone in the boys and was confused by urinals)

I have to say we need to start taking DS, 7, swimming soon and I'd assumed there would be family hanging but I will def be checking before a pick a pool. Whilst I don't think it's OK to say "well it doesn't matter if they're at more risk of abuse, that pendulum will swing when he's older" or "boys don't deserve privacy like girls do" as it seems some believe on here, I do agree that boys over a certain age shouldn't be in there and as HIS mother that's on me, just like all the girl Mom's on here should be complaining every time theres an issue

@SleepingStandingUp handily in this case there is a disabled changing room that can be used.
The debating point is should the girls have to use them rather than the Ladies changing room, or should the boys who are uncomfortable/DPs are uncomfortable with them going into the Mens changing room use them ?
Seems fairly obvious to me that girls should be able to use the Ladies changing room.

This is why they need more changing villages.

I don't agree that boys should be allowed in the girls spaces or that the girls should move to accommodate them.

But it also never ceases to amaze me how mums of girls aged 8/9/10 etc complain that their are boys with their mums in the female changing room and cause them of helicoptering - without seeing they are doing exactly the same!

I agree with the mums above who have said seeing their 9yo walk into the mens alone makes them feel their children could be vulnerable - it needs to be recognised that parents of both sexes feel their young children are vulnerable unsupervised around grown men.

And the solution isn't just to shove the boys into the mens alone anymore than it is for the girls to loose their own space.

It's not black and white.

The discussion seems to be happening in 2 parallels. Yes most kids 7+ can dress themselves. That is not the issue. The issue is parents do not want their kids alone and naked/dressing/undressing in a communal area without them. My area has one pool and so no we can't go anywhere else. I don't expect women or girls to give up their privacy for my DS so therefore the only conclusion is I go with him to the mens and use the cubicle there. I would also not let my DD in a changing room alone at this young age. It's not infantilising then it's PROTECTING them in spaces that abusers specifically target to prey on lone children.

ffs
disabled changing rooms are for disabled people.

Being a child is not a disability.

In this instance, the disabled toilets are labelled disabled/family.

But it also never ceases to amaze me how mums of girls aged 8/9/10 etc complain that their are boys with their mums in the female changing room and cause them of helicoptering - without seeing they are doing exactly the same!

This exactly!!!

While I'm happy with my DS doing into the boys alone part of that comfort comes from knowing that because it's a school pool rented out for swimming lessons the only people getting changed are other boys.
I really wouldn't be that comfortable sending him into the men's at a hotel, or private gym with other men changing.

It amazes me that the posh gyms, health clubs and hotels are the places with open changing rooms. Council places tend to have closed cubicles with doors 🚪

@SleepingStandingUp that what we ended up doing we managed to find a swim school with dedicated changing rooms - no parents whose children over the age of 7 allowed in the changing rooms. Lots of us just waiting - I swear mine took the longest!! As they got older it was harder as they swam (later in the day) in public pools but they would close the access to public swimming changing rooms - but much safer for all. Parents again banned from them. The classes where ability based but usually similar ages.

They did have disabled space which was available to use of appropriate if additional support needed.

This was my answer to my local gym when they insisted that my eight-year-old was able to get changed on his own or that actually he wasn’t able to access the female changing rooms. I went and waited in the men’s. I’m actually most of the men commented who understood why I did it.

I couldn't make any of my three ds change in the female changing room beyond the age of 8!

Even my 12 yr old child who is disabled with the capacity of a 2/3 year old knows men and women don't change together and that his bits are not for public display.

I have stood waiting outside the mens changing room for 30mins up to now waiting for him to change into his swimmers!

If he can do it, then honestly, most 8+ year old boys can too.

I think most places state 8 as the cut off age?

My 8 yo does struggle a bit as he has ADHD - fortunately (for us) everywhere we tend to go has village changing.

However if it was a boy girl divide for children lessons he’d have to go in the men’s and I’d hope he didn’t end up losing 3/4 of his stuff/ try to get in the pool in his socks/ gloves/ whatever.

But it also never ceases to amaze me how mums of girls aged 8/9/10 etc complain that their are boys with their mums in the female changing room and cause them of helicoptering - without seeing they are doing exactly the same!

@Dinoteeth

i was more than happy for my daughter to go in alone - she wanted to & I supported the independence. But due to an upsetting incident with a boy from her school (he was with his Mum) making comments at school she got upset and asked me to go with her - I had to stand with a towel so she could get changed. I’d preferred not to be standing in a hot changing room!!

Surely the alternative to all this boys can invade girls spaces when it suits their mothers - tough luck on the girls is to look for swimming lessons when the pool is being exclusively used by swimming lessons and therefore the ONLY people getting changed are children. That way there is no excuse for boys to use girls spaces. Most of the pools we use have blocks of time for swim lessons where noone else uses the pool - probably for this very reason.

To refuse to put boys in a changing room with other boys and instead invade a girls only space is very wrong. If you don't want your boys in the men's changing - then take them somewhere suitable - which by the way is not the ladies. I hope more girls start to challenge this rubbish but they don't as it is being forced upon them by adult women!

Our local centre has a mixed changing room but with individual cubicles, larger family one at the back and single sex showers with individual shower cubicles.

Why does everything have to be mixed and on show? Most people prefer privacy.

I don’t think anyone has said they don’t want their sons in a changing room with other boys, they’ve said they don’t want their children in a pool with adult men who may or may not have their genitals on display and rightly so, it is enough to make a young boy uncomfortable. Just the same as your daughter might not want to see other adult women’s genitals. I’m also surprised that any young girl, or young teen would even want to get dressed in a changing room without using a cubicle. I understand if there wasn’t any available but I’ve yet to go to a public swimming pool and not see cubicles for people to use.

If the only people getting changed were boys (I.e. a kids only swimming lesson) , I can understand this. However, if there are men getting changed in there, this is appalling. They have a right to privacy too.

We swim at our local health club and the changing rooms are open plan. There is also a family changing room, but that is often occupied by men with young daughters, so if I'm changing too it's not suitable.

I have a 9yo girl & 7yo boy, so see it from both sides. The cut off point for boys in the female changing room is 8+ and I am worried for when DS will have to go it alone on the men's.

The posters saying 'why can't these boys manage to get changed alone' etc are missing the point by a mile. They are vulnerable children, alone and dressing themselves in-front of unknown men. It's hardly surprising why some mums would find this is an issue.

If I had two boys I probably wouldn't mind as much, but I don't. I would have no idea if DS was in trouble or needed help and he wouldn't be able to contact me.

I used to have to help my son when he went swimming at about 8 years old. I don't think they had a disabled changing room. He has autism and ADHD but the other mums wouldn't have known that and he wasn't I diagnosed back then anyway so I would have felt like a fraud using it. We used the girls changing room but went in a cubicle, I hope no one was offended. Never crossed my mind back then tbh. My bad.

Our local pool uses 8 years as the cut off age, that's OK I think. Older isn't, IMO.