Boys in girls changing at swimming

[TonksInPurple]

This is not a trans issue!

my daughter 11 attends swimming lessons at a hotel pool there are several parents who insist on helping there boys age 9/10/11 in the girls open plan changing room. The hotel’s suggestion is that my daughter and her friend change in the disabled changing room.
So the girls should be pushed out there own space. The boys have no additional needs but surely if they did they should use the disabled changing room.

@Holly60 I put on my bra and pants once I've put on moisturiser. It's hardly unusual to see naked breasts in a ladies changing room I would have thought.
If it gives you a fit of the vapours best not to look.

A pool I used to swim at had womens, mens... and then two smaller separate rooms which during swimming lessons were designated at Mother and child and father and child. (At other times they were team changing rooms, or for schools etc).

Even though I have only daughters, I do understand the reluctance to send the boys into the mens unsupervised in a place you cannot enter. DH likes taking the girls camping and has spend a lit of time loitering outside the ladies trying not to look dodgy and identifying a likely looking woman to ask if they don't reappear.

Parents are dicks. It works both ways though. My 14 year old DS hates the pool because the male changing room is completely open plan but dickhead parents whose boys apparently can't dress themselves bring in girls. My teen son does not want to change in front of an 11 year old girl. I imagine grown men do not want to either, and they leave themselves open to accusation from idiot parents who think their little princesses should have the men's room too.

Pools needs to get tougher and send these people to the family room, which exists. Maybe even start fining parents who find it acceptable to drag young girls into rooms where men are changing. And dragging boys into rooms where women are. They shouldn't be getting a free pass because they're parents.

So maybe we should be shielding our male children from people such as yourself, who openly admit to exposing themselves to make young children feel uncomfortable.
Imagine if a male poster said on here, he was going to walk around naked infront of your daughter to piss her off.
You clearly are vile and sick in the head.

Oh and who said my boys are in the girls changing rooms? They’d rather use a private cubicle than get dressed in front of a girl and my daughter would rather do the same!

I think this thread has become quite partisan in its references to "precious boys" and "little princesses".

All children, girls and boys, are precious and all children deserve to be safeguarded from abuse. They also deserve private spaces where they can change in privacy and with dignity, without being made to feel uncomfortable.

Women and men deserve this too.

The problem is that logistically it can be difficult to achieve this for everyone, so the question then becomes, who do you prioritise?

I think the most important thing is that no adults should be in opposite sex changing rooms. It is unacceptable for adult men to enter the women's changing room with their daughters; it is equally unacceptable for adult women to enter the men's changing-room with their sons. That is more unacceptable than having opposite sex children of any age in the men's or women's changing-room. Adults have a greater expectation of privacy, particularly from adults from the opposite sex, than children do. So it is 100% unacceptable for adult men or women to be in the wrong changing-room.

Then I think we'd all agree that little children can be in opposite sex changing rooms. I don't think anyone is particularly bothered by a toddler or a reception-age child of the opposite sex and children of up to 6/7 might conceivably need parental help getting dressed.

There is then a grey area for girls/boys accompanied by an opposite sex parent between 8 to around 14 when they are probably mature enough to change without help but not to deal with the potential risks. And here it is a question of priorities... women and girls are prioritised in their changing-area, men and boys in theirs. So if a parent (for what is usually a very good reason) isn't comfortable with their child going in alone, it's up to them to find a work-around.

It is a gendered issue, but not so much because those "awful boys" are invading women's and girls' spaces (it's usually the mother making the decision to do this) but because, like so many other issues in society, it arises largely due to the prevalence of male aggression, abuse and entitlement towards women and children (of both sexes). Yes, boys grow up into men, but an 8 year old boy has much more in common with an 8 year old girl (they are both children) then with an adult male. But still both are starting to need privacy from each other.

So maybe we should be shielding our male children from people such as yourself, who openly admit to exposing themselves to make young children feel uncomfortable.

JFC. I said that actually on reflection I WOULDN'T DO THAT I WOULD JUST CONTINUE TO USE THE CHANGING ROOM AS I USUALLY DO AND THAT ACTUALLY DOES INVOLVE BEING NAKED.

The major points being made here are these:

a) It is not acceptable to have boys in the girls'/women's changing rooms and that even if you don't want to send your 10 year old boy into the men's that doesn't mean you should impose them on girls and women

b) there is a need for family rooms, and there is a need for private cubicles for anyone who wants them

But there is more than one mother of boys on here who has insisted that they cannot send their man-cub into the men's alone (fair enough, i don't think i would) and therefore will continue to use the girls (stop that, girls deserve their own spaces)

I think the other issue here is awareness of peoples rights to privacy.

If someone absolutely needed to have their slightly older male DC in the Ladies changing room I'd expect them to a) use a cubicle if one exists b) tell their DCs not to look and especially not to comment on anything, particularly women.

This kind of applies to younger DCs as well of either gender - I don't particularly enjoy having young children staring at my naked body when I'm trying to get changed and feel forced to get dressed without moisturising as a result. Parents should be teaching their DCs to be respectful of other peoples bodies.

I would expect them to ask the management for a solution that doesn't depend on them using the women's/girls' changing rooms.
but essentially yes: everyone should feel comfortable

So if a parent (for what is usually a very good reason) isn't comfortable with their child going in alone, it's up to them to find a work-around

And there we go round in a great big circle because the "work around" can often mean using the disabled or kids trying to get changed in a toilet. Neither of which are ideal.

I don't know about England but in Scotland swimming lessons are really hard to get at the moment. Council pools have closed their waiting lists. And their really isn't that many private pools so choices are limited.

No it's not ideal but that's life - often an exercise in compromise and making do. When my DC is older (I think most people can still tolerate a male 5 year old who is not overly interested in anyone around him), we'll either change in the car or under a towel. And we'll live. We do it on the beach, it's fine.

@ChocolateHippo

"I think the most important thing is that no adults should be in opposite sex changing rooms. It is unacceptable for adult men to enter the women's changing room with their daughters; it is equally unacceptable for adult women to enter the men's changing-room with their sons. That is more unacceptable than having opposite sex children of any age in the men's or women's changing-room. Adults have a greater expectation of privacy, particularly from adults from the opposite sex, than children do. So it is 100% unacceptable for adult men or women to be in the wrong changing-room.

Then I think we'd all agree that little children can be in opposite sex changing rooms. I don't think anyone is particularly bothered by a toddler or a reception-age child of the opposite sex and children of up to 6/7 might conceivably need parental help getting dressed."

Exactly this. The reason for the sex separation is to give adults (sexually aware people) privacy from each other. This is why it's considered far more of a need to separate adults than from very young children of the opposite sex.

They're all primary school age but probably the oldest there at the same time as us is 9/10, my daughter is the youngest using the changing room, she's 6 nearly 7 (she asked to do it and she's going swimming with school soon, so I figured it would be good practice!) And then the occasional adult of the same sex, however it's only been the two female swim teachers that have gone in the girls changing room to get the girls to hurry up a bit :p
Nobody at all really uses the boys changing rooms.

Any parents of boys concerned about their safety in the men's could try emailing pools. I contacted 3 when looking for somewhere with mixed or family changing. Since then, one has refurbished with mixed changing facilities. To the ones that offered single sex only I did outline the issues with young boys using adult male changing rooms, and why we would not use them, also. If enough people do this it may change. We do use a nice outside pool as well, now the weather is warmer. Although the changing is single sex, they are small huts right next to the pool and seating area. You can hear everything going on inside, so I feel OK with that too.

Back to the original point, the hotel's response is wrong in my opinion. There should be a cut off age, and if for any reason a child cannot change unaided, then the disabled changing space if there is no 'village' type space should be used.