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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Part 4 AIBU to keep this discussion on Amber and Jonny going?

988 replies

ENoeuf · 22/05/2022 18:39

Just in case we run out on part 3

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ENoeuf · 24/05/2022 08:52

Not for you, but for the jury it might
Of course, just saying as a person watching it, and a layperson like the jury, stuff that's from over 20 years ago doesn't feel relevant either way.

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Boulshired · 24/05/2022 08:55

even knowing that the clock was ticking to ask an expert witness the significance of eating sweets and doddles as being traits of a narcissist. Why just why? It then gave Depp team right in front of the jury the chance to mock by eating a sweet, whilst the question was successfully objected to. Depps team have done a better job of splitting cross between the lawyers. I just can’t get my head around the time planning.

Rinoachicken · 24/05/2022 08:59

But if they call KM AFTER her team is out of time, Elaine won’t be able to do or ask anything!

And I’m not sure if they could object on the basis it was so long ago when it was
AH herself who dragged KM name into the trial in her testimony.

From what I understand, Depps team had wanted to call KM right from the beginning but we’re prevented from doing so for some reason (perhaps objections from the other side about relevance). So they couldn’t use her.

But as soon as AH named her in her testimony that meant Depps team COULD now call her, and they are. If you watched the trial you can see the excitement from JDs team as soon as KMs name left AH’s mouth. They were VERY excited. Which says to me that KM testimony is going to be VERY strongly in JDs favour and could be very damaging for AH.

I think she really fucked up when she mentioned KM and it may really come back to haunt her.

Rinoachicken · 24/05/2022 09:00

I don’t see how you can object and say ‘not relevant - too long ago’ when it was relevant enough for your own client to talk about it on her testimony.

TiddyTidTwo · 24/05/2022 09:05

"It's 24 years ago, I just don't think it holds much weight for me. Elaine needs to make clear the passage of time"

Ellen Barkin??

ENoeuf · 24/05/2022 09:09

Elaine is AH counsel? So she needs to point out the time

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KittyWithoutAName · 24/05/2022 09:11

I was shocked by the memory test he failed where they gave him three words to remember and five mins later he couldn’t remember any of them. The expert was saying that’s unusual for a man in his 50s. I guess drug use/drinking/addiction rots your brain?

Yeah, I suppose that's what it is meant to show. My DP is 30 and he wouldn't be able to pass that test, although that's because he has a brain injury from being smacked in the head one too many times. I don't think Johnny has that.

ENoeuf · 24/05/2022 09:11

Yes I saw all the excitement etc - I just can't see KM being the smoking gun in all this.
This thread is full of people questioning the relevance of witnesses - how AH sister isn't helpful etc it's not that weird I'm saying I can't see how JD team calling someone from 20 years ago is going to be shattering.

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Aspiringmatriarch · 24/05/2022 09:18

But what could Kate Moss say that's so massively damaging to Amber? We already know they had a somewhat volatile relationship with Johnny smashing up at least one hotel room. That doesn't mean he hit her (Kate) of course or was controlling, jealous, verbally abusive etc.

One could still argue that destroying property like that is abusive and intimidating in and of itself, so unless she's coming on the stand to say it was both of them having the time of their lives then that reflects badly on Johnny. And she will certainly be questioned about the incident.

She can absolutely debunk the rumour that Johnny pushed her down some stairs, but that doesn't alter the fact that Amber was aware of the rumour and that factored into the situation with Whitney, as she has testified.

She can say how lovely he was and that's obviously a positive for Johnny, but it doesn't cancel out Ellen Barkin's testimony or the fact that his jealousy has been mentioned by other witnesses. All she can really do is say what her experiences were, which as we know don't necessarily reflect how he may have behaved in other relationships.

You could argue that neither does Ellen Barkin's testimony say anything about other relationships or use Kate to discredit her as a 'woman scorned', but that will ultimately be up to the jury to determine. If it's a case of determining whether he had the capacity to be abusive, I would say that evidence from one partner (or two including Amber) is enough to suggest that he could be.

Aspiringmatriarch · 24/05/2022 09:21

ENoeuf · 24/05/2022 09:09

Elaine is AH counsel? So she needs to point out the time

Yes, especially if they are trying to argue that JD's behaviour may have worsened over time because of his chronic substance abuse.

StormzyinaTCup · 24/05/2022 09:27

ENoeuf · 24/05/2022 09:11

Yes I saw all the excitement etc - I just can't see KM being the smoking gun in all this.
This thread is full of people questioning the relevance of witnesses - how AH sister isn't helpful etc it's not that weird I'm saying I can't see how JD team calling someone from 20 years ago is going to be shattering.

Maybe they have remained good friends? If so he may have spoken to her about 'things'.

ENoeuf · 24/05/2022 09:56

That's a good point @StormzyinaTCup

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Sozzler · 24/05/2022 10:13

Or maybe AH thought she could use JDs and KMs tumultuous relationship to her advantage and approached KM to try to get her to testify against JD. Perhaps there are communications that won't look good on AH. Just a theory, who knows, but I have a feeling there are a few more revelations yet to come in this trial.

FartSock5000 · 24/05/2022 10:48

Kate Moss lied to the police at the time. She initially said she was asleep in bed and didn't hear/see anything until they caught her out then she admitted to being in the centre of his tantrum.

This is detailed in news stories from back then so be interesting if Heards team bring it up.

ObjectionHearsay · 24/05/2022 10:54

KM will be damaging in my opinion not from a legal case wining perspective but a social one.

KM is a far more powerful woman than AH, with more "star presence". If she sits and basically says JD was never abusive to me, or AH's team have approached me trying to testify something I know not to be true. KM trump's AH, for the general lay person.

Personally I find it odd that the money you have in the bank and your celebrity power means what you say has more "weight" but the world is a celebrity obsessed funny place.

minou123 · 24/05/2022 11:23

ObjectionHearsay · 24/05/2022 10:54

KM will be damaging in my opinion not from a legal case wining perspective but a social one.

KM is a far more powerful woman than AH, with more "star presence". If she sits and basically says JD was never abusive to me, or AH's team have approached me trying to testify something I know not to be true. KM trump's AH, for the general lay person.

Personally I find it odd that the money you have in the bank and your celebrity power means what you say has more "weight" but the world is a celebrity obsessed funny place.

Would that depend on the age of the person?

I'm an "oldie" at the grand old age of 40, so I know who Kate Moss is. 😁
But would someone 30 or under know who Kate Moss is? Would they know she was a a superstar supermodel?

ObjectionHearsay · 24/05/2022 11:26

minou123 · 24/05/2022 11:23

Would that depend on the age of the person?

I'm an "oldie" at the grand old age of 40, so I know who Kate Moss is. 😁
But would someone 30 or under know who Kate Moss is? Would they know she was a a superstar supermodel?

I'm in my early 30's , closer to 30 than 35. I know who Kate Moss is, she was on every pre-teen and teen magazine of the 90's, as they pushed for the "supermodel look". 🤣 My arse was always too fat even at 10 to obtain such a look hahaha.

minou123 · 24/05/2022 11:37

@ObjectionHearsay

😂ha ha ha
Yep me too, the thin look wasn't me in the 90s. I was once told I have "child bearing hips"

Workwork21 · 24/05/2022 12:01

I'm 29 and know who moss is, mainly in relation to Pete Docherty.

Midlifemusings · 24/05/2022 12:04

According to somenoe named Legal Bytes...

9 Jurors.

4 males mid20s-mid30s (3 asian and one caucasian who he says is Italian he lables these guys Jurors 1, 2, 3 and 7 based on their seats)

1 male in his mid 40s (asian) Juror 9

1 male in his 50-60s (caucasian) Juror 6

2 females in their mid 30s-40ish (one asian and one African-America/Indian) Jurors 4 and 5

1 female in her 50s (caucasian and catholic) Juror 8

I have no idea if this comes from observation or if he knows some of these details as facts.

adriftabroad · 24/05/2022 12:17

My Spanish DD (14) knows who KM is, as do her friends 😂

Midlifemusings · 24/05/2022 12:21

What, if any, repercussions are there for sharing the plot of a not yet relased movie? Yesterday the 'expert' shared quite a few pieces of the plot as it relates to Amber's character in Aquaman 2. Would this be against the contract? The specific information shared was not central or important to the case itself.

minou123 · 24/05/2022 12:24

adriftabroad · 24/05/2022 12:17

My Spanish DD (14) knows who KM is, as do her friends 😂

Fair enough 😁

I wasn't sure if she was still "on the scene" after 2000. There was a bit of a thing with Pete Docherty.

But after that the only thing I know of her is she retreated to the countryside and wore a lot of Burberry, so wasn't sure if she was still well known

Happy to be corrected.

ObjectionHearsay · 24/05/2022 12:25

Midlifemusings · 24/05/2022 12:21

What, if any, repercussions are there for sharing the plot of a not yet relased movie? Yesterday the 'expert' shared quite a few pieces of the plot as it relates to Amber's character in Aquaman 2. Would this be against the contract? The specific information shared was not central or important to the case itself.

AH didn't say it, so not her fault.

Doubt the studio could do anything. Don't think said expert witness is ever getting to see "top secret" scripts again though, but she's no longer an agent so I don't think it matters in the long term.

Studio will just be annoyed about the spoilers. But then Tom Holland is a catastrophe in a chair for marvel to the point other actors need to be with him for press conferences to step in 🤣 Tom is still Spiderman.

unctuousunicorns1 · 24/05/2022 12:35

One thing that made me roll my eyes was the notion of AH trying to get JD to see how bad his drug and drink problem had got. I mean, the woman was still in nappies when the world and his uncle knew that if he didn't sort himself out, he'd end up either, at best, a tragic, ageing, washed up, out of work, drunken junkie, or at worst, dead. But I guess you have to hit rock bottom before you can climb back up again. Has he kicked the demon d and d? I hadn't heard for definite? 🙁