To be annoyed the boys ‘won’t play with girls’

[Leopardpj]

DD is 4 and in reception. She tells me a lot of the boys in her class say they don’t ever want to play with her as they only want to play with boys. I don’t think she is lacking in friends but I think she is confused about it and is wondering what’s so bad about being a girl and it’s this that is bothering me. I don’t want her feeling it’s uncool or a negative thing to be a girl which I think is an impression she is starting to get. I feel as if this wouldn’t be tolerated if it was a comment being made about children from a religious or ethnic group etc and am wondering about asking the teacher whether she could keep an ear out for this sort of talk and try and nip it in the bud? Or perhaps that’s OTT and I am being unreasonable to think you can stop boys from saying/ feeling like this (I only have DDs so no experience with boys!) thanks in advance !

TempsPerdu
Thank you for your post. That's expressing my feelings on this subject too.
Sexist stereotyping hurts boys as well as girls.

TempsPerdu

Boys shouldn’t be returning from school and describing girls en masse as ‘bossy’ or ‘chatterboxes’ (‘bossy’, in particular, is a deeply gendered term). Girls shouldn’t be describing boys are a group as ‘naughty’ or ‘yucky’.

Agreed and perhaps those girls and boys who are bossy should stop being bossy, particularly at play time.

You assumed, rather than knew, and that assumption was based on prejudice. I know that my little boys will face prejudice like yours as they go through life, but that doesn’t mean I have to happily accept it.

A correct assumption it would seem, and I wonder why that is? Could it be because as a female I have faced decades of sexism so I can recognize it pretty quickly, or it could be that your general tone is a dismissive superior one that aligns quite often with male attitudes through male socialization that all started with boys subtly being shown and told they are better and more important than girls.

Great post, I feel there is a poster on here who could learn a lot from reading and thinking critically about this subject rather than just ignorantly dismissing it and remaining ignorant.

@TempsPerdu

It seems like a lot of boys pick music back up later when they are inspired by something to do so, then they get a guitar or whatever. Perhaps the fact basically all childrens musicals are catered to girls has something to do with this, also a lot of music teachers for younger children seem to be women.

Obviously there are still a lot of adult male musicians and a lot of teenage boys doing music in their own way. But whatever is happening in primary schools it’s pretty clear it isn’t engaging the boys.

But then again perhaps boys just are inclined to become more interested in music at closer to teenage age and girls earlier? That is often how it appears in my experience.

@shewasa99 Yes - but what constitutes ‘bossy’? IME the kind of assertive behaviour that is described as ‘bossy’ in girls is seen as strength or good leadership when applied to boys - part of the ‘boys will be boys’ thing.

And I’ve seldom heard boys described as bossy anyway - as I said upthread, it’s very much a gendered insult.

Do you not see the irony in such a sexist post?

No, actually, you probably don’t.

My little boy started nursery at 2 and a half and after a few months I noticed all of the children he mentioned most (his friends) were blonde haired boys, like him. Maybe children just like those that look similar to them?

@TempsPerdu

Bossy is the kid who comes in and takes over activities and tries to organise other kids when they don’t want it. And continuously wants to be in charge even though it annoys other children. It is never seen as “leadership” in boys or “boys will be boys” - that’s just something those who actually are bossy or don’t want to see that their kid is (usually because they are too) say because they can’t jive with accepting people find their controlling ways obnoxious.

And so they blame sexism, and try to act like if the kid (or them) in question was a boy bossing people around that would be great leadership - when in fact the kid doing it is just bossy, because if there were actually kids happy with them being”the leader” no one would have a problem and they wouldn’t be getting called bossy.

There is no such thing as “good leadership” with small children if some of them aren’t happy with other kids forcing their “leadership” on them. It’s just bossiness.

Perhaps it’s more recognised in girls because the potential for fights amongst the boys is kind of an equaliser in that respect that ensures it doesn’t get to far out of control.

I personally think it's to do with interests. Boys learn quickly that the other boys like the things they do (generally. ) There still are many parents who limit their children toys to things stereotypically for boys like vehicles or construction type toys and girls to dolls and animals.

However I don't think you can fight against nature to a certain extent. Girls are more nurturing and hence why they often like dolls.

I have a boy in year one. There certainly has been a bit more sex division at playtime, but they work in mixed groups during lessons so that helps.

I also have a younger DD, but she's not at school.

It’s quite sad seeing people projecting their own prejudices and views onto little children. Nothing in the OP’s post or since suggests prejudicial or gendered behaviour, sexism, racing, bullying, or anything else negative, yet we see accusations of the most appalling attitudes, and suggestions of nascent or emergent poor behaviour.

Little boys and little girls form groups sometimes. Some mixed-sex, some single-sex, and this is not a problem. There is no suggestion here that it is caused by gendered expectations or toys, or by prejudiced parents or teachers.

So much angst over such normal activity.

*Do you not see the irony in such a sexist post?

No, actually, you probably don’t.*

You find it ironic that due to a large amount of men behaving/acting/speaking in a certain way across my decades of interaction with males, that I was able to (correctly) assume from you posts you were male?

Ironic is not the word I would use to describe that no. Typical is probably more representative.

YABU they are 4!

I find it horrible people saying words like sexism and misogyny. They are 4! My son when he was 3 was told by little girls in the park they don’t want to play with him because he was a boy. It’s what kids do, it’s not limited to just boys.

Yes very common!

Lots of posters have expressed outrage at the (hypothetical) situation of kids choosing same ethnicity friends. Again their lack of knowledge of development shines. As humans we are hard wired to seek similarities in others. We do it naturally as adults but obvs have to learn how to as children. Children around 2-3 begin to recognise they are the same as other children (up till then they play alongside rather than with). At 4-5 they recognise further groups - boys and girls, and often ethnicity (though much of this is related to parents or external experiences - kids knowing each other from mosque for example), whos good at football etc. As they get better at it then they learn some of their old ways of grouping people may not be the best and by early KS2 friendship groups are often mixed sex and value rather than category based.

It's all just learning where they fit into their community, their sense of self (who am I, what am I) and is an absolutely essential part of growing up and learning how to navigate the world. Children with poor senses of self do NOT develop into confident able adults.

Yep there's certainly a lot of projection in this thread...

Staff will be dealing with these things in a discrete manner. They will address 'sexist' comments in the same way they would do racist/homophobic ones.
Boys will say this, as do many girls but actually in a class throughout the day they will mix, play and interact with most of the class.
Don't worry about it, I like how you're speaking to your daughter, be incredulous that someone thinks that, make it fun.
But as a PP said playtimes etc are spent dealing with situations where some kid who doesnt want to play with another.

You all deserve medals 🎖

Both my DSs played with girls. It was actually mentioned in their reports so maybe it was unusual at the time. They played with their sister too of course. I doubt teachers try to segregate them. Maybe some have a different , more rigid home life ?

If Eliot wants to play dolls he can certainly try to play with the girls and maybe that will be alright if he is that sort of boy, THAT SORT of boy?? Do you not see how damaging that language is? THAT SORT. What, the sort with a baby sibling or a big sister with dolls? THAT SORT is exactly why the boy at nursery had to make do with a toy shopping trolley because he wasn't allowed a pushchair. And it comes back to the "girl" stuff being less cool, less strong, less superior, just little wife home stuff

and if Lucy wants to play dinosaurs she can do the same. but she doesn't need to be THAT SORT of girl??

The problem is when people act like all the girls must now like Dinosaurs because Lucy does or all the boys must like dolls but no one has. Not all boys like dinosaurs.. Not all girls like dolls. No one cares about that.

When children are left to their own devices they usually seperate based on interests which despite all the attempts to interfere are usually pretty stereotypical plenty of tests show that all the influences up until that point are largely stereotypical anyway. People give girls softer toys, expect boys to be rougher etc. It's ingrained because of socialisation, not the tiny impact of a Y chromosome before hormones have kicked in fully

there’s nothing wrong with trying to find a place for kids that fall outside that though, there's only an outside if you draw lines and put up walls.

But people are kidding themselves making believe that girls and boys will play together as though there’s no difference except it does happen. Plenty of people on here saying it happens just fine and naturally at their school. No teachers are forcing the poor little girls to play with DS against their will. No one of tying younger DS to a toy pushchair and refusing to let him play with anything else.

certainly try to play with the girls and maybe that will be alright I missed one. It isn't OK for the kids to exclude another child because of sex. We're not talking about "Billy pulls their heads off" behaviour that's about Billy, but about genitals. And MAYBE that will be alright? You sound like they'll be traumatised if they see a boy cuddle and feed the Dolly 🙄. If they want to exclude Hannah cos she's ginger or has pigtails is that OK? Can Hannah TRY and play with them and if she succeeds we'll all watch and see if it was alright because you know, it's a lot for the brunettes to handle??

It's all just learning where they fit into their community, their sense of self (who am I, what am I) and is an absolutely essential part of growing up and learning how to navigate the world. Children with poor senses of self do NOT develop into confident able adults
Good to know KS1 DS having an Asian female as his best friend is a sign of his poor sense of self and an indicator on how he'll fail in later life 🙄

@Stompythedinosaur I wouldn't worry about @SlightlyGeordieJohn.

There seems to have been a massive influx of a certain type of poster that was not previously seen so abundantly on MN before (at least not in the time I've beeb around). I initially thought it had been some sort of organised campaign but I'm starting to think the repeated articles based on mn posts that appear in a certain "newspaper" has drawn them in.

I suspect once they realise that mumsnet isn't the echo chamber they are used to and that they will actually have to engage in debate AND tolerate opposing views here they'll slink back off again.

Point of thread missed entirely I know.

its a normal developmental stage that most children go through and it fluctuates back and forth through their childhood anyway.

Attempts to change this for some adult fear of 'sexism' or trying to be 'inclusive' which means nothing to children of that age, is particularly misguided and shows a lack of understanding of child development

Perhaps read the entirety of my post FFS. I did say that in schools where there are a large number of two different ethnicities (eg white European and South Asian) that often the children play with children of their own ethnicity, although this could be cultural.

At no point did I say that white children playing with black children, or boys with girls, means they haven't developed a secure sense of self. The reverse is likely to be true in fact - it's developed enough for them to be confident in choosing play mates with similar values, rather than because they are in a particular, easy to identify category.

But you go ahead and find offence where there is none. 🤷‍♀️