To ask why cheating is so wrong?

[Tandora]

Inspired by another thread, where people are emphatically insisting that no one should need an explanation for why cheating is so wrong.

AIBU to ask for one?

I mean I get that it’s horrible when someone does something behind your back; so the lying aspect of it- I see how that is wrong. But it’s more than that isn’t it? like it’s not just any old lie.. after all people tell lies all the time (including in relationships), yet it seems that cheating is considered almost the worst thing that you can do to someone. But why?

I get that if you’ve committed your life to someone , it’s a betrayal if they suddenly abandon ship for someone else, but why do people get so beyond upset about casual flings, where there’s no intention to leave? Or is it because they are afraid a fling might lead to abandonment?

It seems quite strange to me to be so wound up about what someone else does with their body, and to feel so entitled to control that…

Sooo… can someone explain it to me? I don’t really get the concept. Genuinely..

<Puts on hard hat and ducks for cover 😅>

(And the equivalent fraud for women is obviously risking having other mens offspring, or actually passing off orher mens offspring as your mate's, which apparently has always happened quote a lot).

• breaking an oath means they can't be trusted to keep any other promises.
• It risks your sexual health
• It risks a baby being born to someone else aka risks your finances and relationships.

All those saying monogamy isn’t natural, I don’t disagree. But have some blooody self awareness or failing that, self control. No one is forcing you to pair up with someone who does want monogamy. Be honest with yourself up front and then with the people you seek relationships with. Failing that, if you do find yourself over come with the need to get involved with someone else, restrain yourself while you consider your existing partner. If you still want to proceed, , at least let them know your intentions so they can ditch you, accept it, embrace it and find their own partner.

One of the worst parts of cheating is that one person is unilaterally making changes to the fundamental nature of the partnership. It’s telling someone that they aren’t enough not fun enough, sexy enough, up for it enough, submissive enough blah blah, whatever, it’s driving someone to want someone else). But even more than that, it takes all their agency away. At least if the person is upfront about what they want, their partner gets to make a choice too, not just deal with the aftermath.

And anyone who thinks it doesn’t effect their children is deluded. My dad is a serial cheater. He’s a nice guy, never meant any harm. But it taught me early on that commitment is all a lie, people do whatever they want, regardless of what they say or promise.

I think it's because of the layers of lies which are involved. And the quantity of them. Also the gaslighting and the trying to blame the affair partner, and finally trying to blame the wife. From what I've seen, those having the affairs are also deficient in other ways; selfish, lazy at home, those sorts of things.

Not sure what you find so hard to understand unless you are deliberately being obtuse. Most people enter a relationship with the hope or expectation that it is monogamous, they make decisions based to have kids, move jobs, live together, share a life based on that. Cheating breaks that 'contract' or at least renegades on that.

You don't understand why anyone thinks they should have control over someone else's body, your opinion which is fair enough but that implies you aren't expecting a relationship to be monogamous.

I understand your broader point. I have known someone to be like “if my boyfriend cheats I’m out” yet the same guy disrespects her in every other way but she isn’t “out” then.

in terms of the Q for me it would be:

1. I thought you were ‘my’ person, but you’re not. That would make me feel very unsure of my own judgements but also do I even have anyone on my team. My partner should be on my team!
2. I’d not shag you if you were shagging others so by cheating and it’d be pretty clear so, you’re essentially having sex with me without my actual informed consent
3. I have trust issues already so to trust someone and they’re being dishonest would literally break me. I doubt I’d ever get over it.
4. having shared jokes, chats, intimacy with other people outside of our relationship would deep into it. So like, if they recommended a tv show I’d always be thinking “was this something she likes that you’ve brought into our home?”

theres loads more bit I think for me, being cheated on would destroy me more than any other form of abuse. Others I could easier blame the perpetrator but cheating? I’d look inward for my whole life I think

Wowzer. I mean this is how some jurisdictions view the matter - Saudi Arabia for example. Personally I find such a perspective pretty abhorrent. To me it implies ownership over another person’s body/ sexuality.

Also if the cheating is unprotected you are potentially exposing them to STIs which can make ppl infertile

I don’t really buy these arguments tbh. It’s perfectly possible to practice safe sex. Yes you can never absolutely minimise risk , but there are ways to make it pretty negligible. Would I be mad if my partner slept with someone else behind my back and gave me a nasty disease - for sure, but to me that’s a different question. I think people are typically devastated by cheating regardless of any new diseases/ offspring,

*never absolutely eliminate risk I meant to say

This all makes perfect sense to me . Particularly the bit about the reasons it’s upsetting being individual to the people involved. I think this has been what’s most interesting about this thread for me- the diversity of responses. Some people say that it makes them feel sick to think of their partner being intimate with someone else, others say it’s not actually the sex but the lying. I guess for me personally, the former makes little sense, but the latter I do understand, hence for me, how upset I would be would depend on the extent of lying/ deception involved.
In terms of the sex, I guess I personally just feel that my partner’s body and his sexuality is his own and i can’t get too wound up about what he does with it. Personally I can’t relate to those who say things like - “ it makes you feel like you aren’t enough”, or it means they don’t really love you,/ are laughing at you behind your back etc. for me if my partner had sex with someone else it wouldn’t automatically imply he doesn’t love me. I think that’s real tbh, I think people do stray sometimes even when they love their partners..

It's not really ownership over someone's body. It's the removal of informed consent. I would not consent to having sex with my DP if he had had sex with someone else for example. It's also not "entitled" to not want the other person to sleep with someone else, if you have both agreed that you are in a relationship where you won't sleep with other people. Also condoms can break, and they do little to prevent gentian herpes or warts.

I'd also say that to me, a casual fling is more like a short relationship than a one night stand. Would I end my relationship over a drunken one night stand? Probably not. But I would be very very upset and it would change how I saw him and our relationship.

One of our old neighbours and his wife were swingers/in an open relationship. But obviously that's different to cheating, as they were both on the same page and there was no lying involved.

It's not really ownership over someone's body. It's the removal of informed consent.
This.
The perspective that your partners body and sexuality is their own, while true, seems like a bit of a cop out ( and an excuse a cheater would use!) but if you enter a monogamous relationship you are agreeing to not have sex or be intimate with other people. If you want to do that, then you need to be upfront and honest so your partner can make their mind up about whether that is they type of relationship they want.

If you change the goal posts without consulting your partner then you can't be surprised when that person is upset and ends the relationship.

I believe that you can have sex with other people and still love your partner but only when it's agreed by both parties.
If you have sex with someone else without permission, even if it's a drunken one night stand then i don't believe you truly love your partner. You don't disrespect people you love.

I don’t think we are saying it’s acceptable to cheat when drunk, I think we are just saying that it wouldn’t be the end of the world/ our relationship/ sanity / self esteem. I know for some it implies all those things and I was curious why.
In terms of your question- if my partner wanted to have a one off shag with someone at work- honestly I don’t think it would really bother me too much 🙈

OP it seems you're conflating cheating with shagging outside the relationship. It's not quite the same thing and it comes down to honesty for me.

You can have polygamous and open relationships, you can give your partner hall passes in whatever situation you mutually decide, or you can be fully monogamous. Whatever. But you can't have a healthy relationship if one of you is lying to the other. Honesty is the bedrock of relationships.

And poly people I've known are certainly not immune to cheating drama - it happens when one of the people involved crosses the boundaries that have been agreed on (whatever those are) and lies about it.

It's not really about whether a drunken snog would be world-ending. I don't think it would be for me. I don't really feel jealousy and I don't need to feel as if DP only lusts after me (which is bonkers, I certainly find other men attractive). But I will not be lied to. I guess that's my relationship-ending boundary.

CottonGoods · 17/05/2022 20:23
I have cheated, OP. My experience is that it shows that something is wrong with the primary relationship. That makes it neither right nor wrong, but understandable“

no, it’s wrong. If you’re unhappy in your “primary” relationship, leave first then sleep with someone else.

I do get the informed consent point- but this is a big debate in sexual violence law more generally. How much does the other person need to disclose/ be honest about, to form the basis for consent? Is it ok to lie about a medical condition/ your job? Do they have to be honest about all their previous sexual partners etc. in my view it’s highly problematic / impractical to take too wide a view on what people are required to disclose.

On another of your points- Of course it’s not good to disrespect your partner, but people disrespect each other in relationships all the time in a myriad of ways. Does my partner always treat me with 100% respect- unfortunately no. And I’m ashamed to admit it probably goes both ways sometimes. People aren’t perfect. My question was, why is cheating seen as so much worse: of a different character/ quality than others forms of lying/ betrayal/ disrespect.

My first proper experience of being cheated on was in late 20s/30 when I broke up from my DP at the time but found out after we'd broken up that he'd cheated on me - he admitted this. Granted, we did have a few rows and took each other for granted but I never cheated on him and despite how he behaved towards me I never thought he would cheat on me. As I told him, if I knew/he'd told me beforehand I would've had a good excuse to dump him before we broke up. He agreed but obviously didn't want that.

For him though, I think it was learned behaviour - his dad used to cheat on his mum all the time they were married and the kids knew, so my DP though he knew it was wrong it was almost ingrained in him that some people behaved like this. I know of him through a mutual friend now (I don't see her much) (ex DP is married with DC) and she says he is known to cheat on his wife from time to time but the wife puts up with it, for the children's sake.

Relationships are built on trust and mutual respect.

There is a way to have sexual relationships with other people outside of your relationship/marriage, however, this needs to be agreed and respected by both partners and if any limitations need to be brought in (no emotional connection, etc). So... Polyamory

If one partner does not agree with their partner having sexual relationships outside the marriage then that's when the deceit comes in. Both partners should respect the decision of monogamy or end the relationship.

There's nothing wrong with polyamory or monogamy but you need to respect the wishes of your partner and trust that neither party would break the agreement.

Maybe you didn't love the person who cheated on you, which is why it didn't bother you? Or you know there was no emotional connection to who he was shagging so you don't feel betrayed? Maybe polyamory is your thing?

Heads up @Tandora for when you or your partner have sex with someone else: using condoms will not protect you 100% from STDs.

It’s the ultimate betrayal, no other lie can result in a pregnancy that will affect the lives of the betrayed and their families.

Because humans are naturally monogamous creatures so when a partner we chose to become monogamous with breaks that bond and the trust, it’s soul destroying? It ruins people’s self esteem and confidence too amongst other reasons. It’s a completely selfish thing to do to anyone. If you’re unhappy, leave.

I think that once you commit exclusively to a person, you agree to put that relationship first, above all other relationships (until you have kids and then you agree to put your immediate family first and balance needs within it as fairly as possible)

If you develop romantic relationships outside of that, your resources are necessarily split. Be it money, time, emotional support, childcare. Few partners are (in my opinion) in a position to offer this to more than one partner or family. The original partner is likely to feel pretty aggrieved and resentful that you are now putting your own and your new partner’s needs above theirs (and their children’s) especially if they feel you were not meeting the needs of the family in the first place. We live in such a tough world for families, I imagine there aren’t many people that feel adequately resourced in the first place, and the hurt, betrayal and worry a partner feels at being expected, without consultation, to share those inadequate resources with another (which they may or may not be prioritised above) is gravely shocking. I think we are instinctively wired to know we need an exclusive partner for the survival of our children and that’s why (from an anthropological perspective) it’s so shocking and almost panic-inducing to discover infidelity. Love evolved to create strong family and tribal bonds to enable survival. Without them, we would not have survived in a stone age world. We have changed our world a lot, but we are not much different ourselves in evolutionary terms.

It seems quite strange to me to be so wound up about what someone else does with their body

It's not about what someone else 'does with their body'. It's about what they do with another person's body.

I personally don't want someone else having sex with my partner because to me, that's a violation of the unit my partner and I have formed together. There's an intimacy and privacy there in our relationship that (for us) would not be there if we were having sex with other people.

If you don't think it would be a problem if you or your partner had sex with someone else, provided there was no deceit involved, then that's fine - crack on, have an open relationship! If it works for you, then great. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that if everyone involved is happy with that.

The fact that you personally don't understand why some people prefer to be monogamous is really neither here nor there. Their feelings about relationships are different from yours. There's no need for you to understand it. Just accept that what works for you isn't what works for everyone.

I've been cheated on - emotional affair but not physical.

In my experience them cheating often involves a) lying to me b) slagging me off to the other women to garner sympathy and c) gaslighting me. So in short they've lied, insulted me, disrespected me, called me crazy and embarrassed me. Not to mention it tips your view of your life upside down - all future plans are now defunct. All that effort and time you've invested has essentially been flushed down the toilet.

If it was any other thing they did which encompassed these things I'd be just as hurt and pissed off. For example gambling away my hard earned savings would get them the same reaction from me.