DD being bullied by a riding instructor at horse therapy

[howler21]

I honestly can’t believe this is happening and that an adult is behaving in this way, especially with vulnerable adolescents.

DD13 has depression, undiagnosed ASD (she’s due to be assessed) and severe anxiety. I had to pull her out of school in January and home-educate her. She was being severely bullied and was at the point of being suicidal.

I work very part time (I’m a lunchtime assistant at a primary school, Monday-Friday) and DD gets left for a couple of hours a day. Now she’s out of school she’s no longer self-harming or suicidal and she gets on with her school work fine during this time.

My local authority home education team recommended me some resources and activities to enrich her life and give her something to do, with a view towards confidence building. One of these things is an all day activity Tuesdays and Thursdays at a stables. It was described as ‘horse therapy’ and being great for mental health. DD loves animals so I thought it sounded brilliant and it fit around my work hours. They do riding lessons, horse care, and some study work towards some kind of horse care qualification, and friendship building is encouraged. It really did sound perfect for DD and she actually really wanted to go. There’s about 15 kids in the current cohort, a few are like DD (out of school due to mental health/bullying), some are in care, some have experienced recent bereavement. All are very vulnerable. None of the kids have behavioural issues, I know because I asked (some of the other home-ed activities she’s tried she was with kids who’d been excluded and they caused trouble which made DD anxious). They said they won’t have kids with behavioural issues anyway because it’s a safeguarding issue for them and the horses, it’s only for kids with trauma/confidence issues. I bring this up because it shows that there’s no need for the kids to be shouted at.

DD loved it for the first few sessions but today had a panic attack and refused to go. She revealed that the instructor who does the Thursday sessions (apparently the Tuesday one is lovely) has been picking on her. DD’s ASD make her very matter of fact and she doesn’t lie, she just doesn’t. She was also visibly distressed. Incidents include:

1. They were taught how to take a bridle off the horses and put them away. DD got hers confused and the bridle got all tangled up on the shelf. Instructor yelled “What the hell are you doing to that bridle?????”. Later on DD overhead her talking to another member of staff saying “I don’t know what the fuck x did to this bridle.”

1. They were bringing some ponies in from grazing field into the stables. Instructor told DD to open the gate to let the other kids lead the ponies out. DD struggled to get the gate mechanism open to open (she struggles with fiddly hand things, but can get there with patience). Instructor rolled her eyes and said “fucking hell” under her breath, didn’t help, just stared and watched. DD then panicked and managed to get the gate open but then it swung fully open and the instructor said “Oh nice one yeah, just let all of the horses go free onto the road! Well done!” sarcastically.

1. I was 45 minutes late picking her up one day. It was a complete one off, car trouble and I’d phoned the stables to let them know. There’s a reception to sit in with seating and vending machines, so I assumed DD would just be kept there. Instructor taunted DD repeatedly saying “Well your mum best get here soon because I’m off at 4 and I have to lock the reception so you can’t stay in here.”. This caused DD’s anxiety to skyrocket.

1. Somebody from the family who owns the stables came into the reception when the kids and instructors were there with their baby. Instructor proceed to go over to make a fuss of the baby and some of the girls did too. Baby’s mum was apparently fine with this and was passing baby around to some of the kids and generally encouraging them to pass the baby around themselves. Another girl was about to pass baby to DD and instructor then said “No, you’ve got to give her back!”. I explained to DD that it can be stressful for babies to be passed around like that and maybe it wasn’t personal but DD says the other girls were being encouraged and it was only when she went to have her ‘turn’ with the baby that the instructor went funny. Baby’s mum didn’t appear to have an issue apparently. I’m not sure about this one and whether it really counts as targeted incident but based on the other incidents, I’m suspicious.

1. Yelling at DD during riding lessons and making her do things she doesn’t want to do. DD didn’t want to do a jump and instructor shouted “Oh just get on with it!!!!”. DD ended up having a panic attack on the horse and the instructor did nothing. DD had to get off the horse herself with the instructor yelling at her. Instructor was fuming and told her to go to reception and wait for the others to finish. The woman at reception saw DD come in crying asked what had happened. She was apparently horrified that DD had been made to walk across the premises to reception alone as kids on the programme are meant to be supervised at all times (due to being vulnerable, MAJOR safeguarding issue to have them wandering around alone).

1. One day when I was ill DD’s stepdad took her in his work van. Instructor said to DD “Your stepdad’s work van is an absolute state! Jesus Christ!” and was laughing about it. DD found it weird, and I do too. Completely unnecessary.

I don’t know what to do or who to complain to but I believe DD, she doesn’t lie. Maybe she’s been oversensitive about the baby thing and I’m willing to overlook that but the other incidents I think are just awful
The instructor knows of DD’s diagnosed anxiety and self-esteem issues. I can’t believe an adult is bullying her like this. I’ve met this instructor myself a couple of times and she is in general a very brash, loud personality and tbh hard as nails. I tried not to judge a book by its cover but these incidents have shown she’s not a very nice person. I struggle to believe that she can be in any way qualified for this job. Some of these kids have been through very recent bereavement. I can understand that sometimes when horses are involved an instructor will need to shout to stop a child about to get into a dangerous situation but I don’t feel this applies here.

She has ASD Shock she is not over sensitive Hmm maybe you are insensitive?

@PurpleBike
Many people with ASD are over sensitive. That’s a fact. It’s not offensive or insensitive to state a fact.
Parents of those with ASD are aware of this.

It doesn’t make their feelings invalid.

OP is obviously aware of this which is why she didn’t pull her out the first time she said anything but the pattern is what’s concerning her as it’s not just a one off that her DD has taken to heart.

Your poor DD. I would withdraw her from the Thursday sessions and let the LA organisers know that the instructor is swearing at your DD and does not have the skills to meet her needs. Keep it factual and neutral. Hopefully they’ll act on it, but if not you haven’t burnt any bridges with regards to the Tuesday sessions.

My poor DD had a run in with a Horsey Woman who was supposed to be helping her build her confidence back after 2 years out of the saddle due to a nasty elbow break. I’ve met many other Horsey Women in yards over the years, dispensing unwanted (and often inaccurate advice) and policing non-existent yard rules.

I don’t think they are purposefully rude so much as lacking in social awareness.

IMO you need people skills as much as horse skills to be an instructor. To many instructors get into it for the wrong reasons.

Please ignore all the typos in that post!

In my fantasy world, I'd have the self righteous bullying bitch up against a wall. In reality I would do as some of the very helpful posters have suggested. 'Horsey people' don't get a pass on being cunts.

Some horsey people do indeed have utterly shit people skills. I've been around horses and riding schools for 40+ years, and met some absolute horrors. But, the thing is, they aren't 'better horse people because they have no social skills. They think they are, but they aren't.

If your DD is keen to stay in the programme, please do speak to the organisers. They need to know that if they want the kudos of running a programme for vulnerable children,they need to understand how to work with vulnerable children. They may not know how the instructor behaves, and they may not realise the impact her behaviour is having on your DD. Tell them, and give them a chance to put it right before you withdraw DD.

Is there a benchmark against which to measure a normal level of being sensitive? What about a benchmark for being rude?

Op's dd was suicidal not too long ago and is now in therapy to help build her up. The fact that she is hanging in there shows she is a fighter, referring to her as oversensitive is unkind and disablist.

Some horsey people do indeed have utterly shit people skills.

Weirdly my riding instructor as a kid was a Jackie. She did in fact reduce me to tears with her screaming many time.

Your poor daughter! This woman sounds like an absolute monster. I would be heartbroken to hear that someone spoke to my child like that and made them feel so shit. I really hope you take this as far as you can and it gets sorted out. No vulnerable person should be around this woman especially anyone who has prev self harming or suicidal thoughts. Words hurt. Your poor daughter 🥹

It’s never ‘absolutely necessary.’ If something is so super duper high heal the and safety that it’s necessary to scream and swear at a teenager you don’t ask a teenager to do it. You do it yourself. Or, you dedicate part of the lesson to a ‘safety demonstration’ where you demonstrate how to open the gate in a low pressure environment and have all students give it a go so you have equipped them with the necessary skills to do this before you ask them to do it in that dangerous situation. If that doesn’t work you then go to your supervisor and explain that you don’t feel you can keep the children you’re teaching safe. You don’t swear at them and degrade them.

Loads of situations are dangerous but has anyone ever considered it necessary for their driving instructor to swear at them? Or what about the nurseries I work at? Presumably you’d be happy for me to say ‘for fuck’s sake what are you doing’ to your toddler when they wander to the road? After all it’s ‘absolutely necessary’ in dangerous situations.

My son was bullied at RDA - an instructor who really didn't understand how to work with young people who have learning difficulty. We have found that people who volunteer for RDA are good with horses unfortunately not all are good with people.

When I was in primary school I was obsessed with horses and my parents signed me up for lessons. The instructor sounds just like your daughter’s. I lasted two lessons and never went back. She was awful. You’re poor daughter. It’s not her, it’s the arsehole woman! I’m so angry for you both xx

This is totally my experience with horsey people. We own a horse and my daughter spends her life at the livery yard, but horsey instructors are usually bloody mean and shouty. Everything OP you describe is a pretty normal daily occurrence. But I understand that not everyone can put up with it (actually I'm scared of most of the instructors myself 🤣) and that this programme is designed for particularly sensitive kids. You should try speaking (nicely) to the yard manager.

Horsey people are big time twats it's really well known.

I'm not sure you can do anything about it.

I think a lot of posters are misunderstanding the point of the OP. There are programmes to spend time with horses specifically for vulnerable young people (not riding for the disabled) who through no fault of their own can really benefit from a therapeutic intervention not based on talking therapies etc- for lots of reasons this is not right for them at this time. It really can work- in my experience with teens in care who have been let down at every point since birth, although so hard to find funding or a place. As a therapeutic service, not just dropping of a child to have a riding lesson and help out around the yard, there absolutely needs to be proper safeguards in place- most importantly staff trained and able to manage young people who very likely have suffered trauma or have have triggers.

OP - on a completely different note, has your daughter seen Heartland on Netflix? If not, she will love it! exactly about that type of programme for vulnerable/kids in care having horsey therapy at a ranch in Canada and the lovely family that owns it. Any horsey girl's dream-TV

I mentioned our experience RDA because it was suggested further back in the thread. We have also tried 'horse therapy' - nice idea, my son loves horses, it can be very powerful but once again, in our personal experience it was run by people who understand horses not people.

I’d hate to pull DD out. She likes all of the other kids there. There’s a couple of lovely girls she’s really gelled with and there was talk them of going to the cinema together. DD has had no friends since primary school so this is huge for her.

There’s a terrible irony in the fact that she left school due to bullying, has now find this where she likes the other kids and they like her only for it to be ruined by a 30 year old
woman bullying her instead.

I agree the baby incident wasn’t really an issue but instructor was nasty about it and wasn’t subtle about the fact that she felt DD couldn’t be trusted to hold the baby even though the others could. It was the same day as the gate incident so instructor was probably worried DD would drop the baby, but she didn’t need to be so obvious about it. She’d been encouraging everybody else to cuddle baby and pass baby around, yet the second DD is about to have her she started yelling and shouting at her. A “right I think it’s time to give baby back to mum” would have sufficed.

DD was very specific about the fact that the instructor shouted “No! (Insert DD’s name), don’t take the baby! (Insert child holding baby’s name), give her back to her mum!”. DD remembers details like this so I’m confident that’s what was said. Previously she’d been telling the other girls to pass the baby around but when DD was about to have a turn, she lost her shit. If she didn’t feel it was safe for DD to hold the baby after the gate incident, that’s understandable but there were other ways to deal with it.

There’s a couple of lovely girls she’s really gelled with and there was talk them of going to the cinema together. DD has had no friends since primary school so this is huge for her.

Oh OP that's made me cry.
Hope you can resolve it.

There is no need to pull DD out OP. My understanding is that your daughter is in a provision which is advertised and 'sold' to meet her needs. In the interim maybe stop the day that is causing issues whilst you follow this up. I am so sorry you and your daughter are in this situation- you probably have had to fight very hard already to get to the place you are now. If these stables are being funded to provide a therapeutic provision they should be doing that. It is really positive your DC has made friends and has a good experience with the other instructor. If you can, keep this up whilst you deal with the issues with the other instructor. Good luck

In your shoes, I would confront the instructor directly, possibly organise an appointment. Your dd can still go on Tuesdays but maybe stop her going on Thursdays if things don’t immediately improve massively.

*Horsey people are big time twats it's really well known.

I'm not sure you can do anything about it*

i taught at a very well respected riding school. No one was a twat. Any twats we did come across tended to be that particular type of person that bullies to make themselves look superior. They didn’t last long if they came to us.

as for what you can do about it, you complain. This is how gymnastics got itself into deep trouble, everyone just thought that’s what gymnastic coaches were like. Until people started speaking out and we realised the full horror of what grown adults were putting those kids through.

complain o/p. Make an appointment with whoever is in charge, be nice, but completely clear she cannot treat children this way.

all clubs now have to have a safeguarding policy. Quote the BHS’s at them;

www.bhs.org.uk/~/media/documents/dbs-safeguarding/2021-safeguarding-documents/bhs-safeguarding-policy-c--yp---generic--final-version-may-2021.ashx?la=en

right at the beginning:

• To ensure robust safeguarding arrangements and procedures are in operation to provide children and young people with appropriate safety and protection, allowing them to participate in a fun, safe environment and in an atmosphere of fair play.
• To take all reasonable, practical steps to protect children from harm, discrimination and degrading treatment and respect their rights, wishes and feelings.

That’s awful. I’m a horsey person and I hate to say it but in my opinion a disproportionate amount of riding instructors seem to be like this. I vividly remember one who bullied me horribly when I was young.

I would definitely complain to whomever it is that employs her, she sounds horrible.

DD’s new friends are similar to her, out of school due to bullying and there’s a nice little group going so I really wouldn’t want to have to pull her out. One of them also noticed the bullying of DD by the instructor and mentioned to DD that she didn’t understand why the teacher was so horrible to her.