DD being bullied by a riding instructor at horse therapy

[howler21]

I honestly can’t believe this is happening and that an adult is behaving in this way, especially with vulnerable adolescents.

DD13 has depression, undiagnosed ASD (she’s due to be assessed) and severe anxiety. I had to pull her out of school in January and home-educate her. She was being severely bullied and was at the point of being suicidal.

I work very part time (I’m a lunchtime assistant at a primary school, Monday-Friday) and DD gets left for a couple of hours a day. Now she’s out of school she’s no longer self-harming or suicidal and she gets on with her school work fine during this time.

My local authority home education team recommended me some resources and activities to enrich her life and give her something to do, with a view towards confidence building. One of these things is an all day activity Tuesdays and Thursdays at a stables. It was described as ‘horse therapy’ and being great for mental health. DD loves animals so I thought it sounded brilliant and it fit around my work hours. They do riding lessons, horse care, and some study work towards some kind of horse care qualification, and friendship building is encouraged. It really did sound perfect for DD and she actually really wanted to go. There’s about 15 kids in the current cohort, a few are like DD (out of school due to mental health/bullying), some are in care, some have experienced recent bereavement. All are very vulnerable. None of the kids have behavioural issues, I know because I asked (some of the other home-ed activities she’s tried she was with kids who’d been excluded and they caused trouble which made DD anxious). They said they won’t have kids with behavioural issues anyway because it’s a safeguarding issue for them and the horses, it’s only for kids with trauma/confidence issues. I bring this up because it shows that there’s no need for the kids to be shouted at.

DD loved it for the first few sessions but today had a panic attack and refused to go. She revealed that the instructor who does the Thursday sessions (apparently the Tuesday one is lovely) has been picking on her. DD’s ASD make her very matter of fact and she doesn’t lie, she just doesn’t. She was also visibly distressed. Incidents include:

1. They were taught how to take a bridle off the horses and put them away. DD got hers confused and the bridle got all tangled up on the shelf. Instructor yelled “What the hell are you doing to that bridle?????”. Later on DD overhead her talking to another member of staff saying “I don’t know what the fuck x did to this bridle.”

1. They were bringing some ponies in from grazing field into the stables. Instructor told DD to open the gate to let the other kids lead the ponies out. DD struggled to get the gate mechanism open to open (she struggles with fiddly hand things, but can get there with patience). Instructor rolled her eyes and said “fucking hell” under her breath, didn’t help, just stared and watched. DD then panicked and managed to get the gate open but then it swung fully open and the instructor said “Oh nice one yeah, just let all of the horses go free onto the road! Well done!” sarcastically.

1. I was 45 minutes late picking her up one day. It was a complete one off, car trouble and I’d phoned the stables to let them know. There’s a reception to sit in with seating and vending machines, so I assumed DD would just be kept there. Instructor taunted DD repeatedly saying “Well your mum best get here soon because I’m off at 4 and I have to lock the reception so you can’t stay in here.”. This caused DD’s anxiety to skyrocket.

1. Somebody from the family who owns the stables came into the reception when the kids and instructors were there with their baby. Instructor proceed to go over to make a fuss of the baby and some of the girls did too. Baby’s mum was apparently fine with this and was passing baby around to some of the kids and generally encouraging them to pass the baby around themselves. Another girl was about to pass baby to DD and instructor then said “No, you’ve got to give her back!”. I explained to DD that it can be stressful for babies to be passed around like that and maybe it wasn’t personal but DD says the other girls were being encouraged and it was only when she went to have her ‘turn’ with the baby that the instructor went funny. Baby’s mum didn’t appear to have an issue apparently. I’m not sure about this one and whether it really counts as targeted incident but based on the other incidents, I’m suspicious.

1. Yelling at DD during riding lessons and making her do things she doesn’t want to do. DD didn’t want to do a jump and instructor shouted “Oh just get on with it!!!!”. DD ended up having a panic attack on the horse and the instructor did nothing. DD had to get off the horse herself with the instructor yelling at her. Instructor was fuming and told her to go to reception and wait for the others to finish. The woman at reception saw DD come in crying asked what had happened. She was apparently horrified that DD had been made to walk across the premises to reception alone as kids on the programme are meant to be supervised at all times (due to being vulnerable, MAJOR safeguarding issue to have them wandering around alone).

1. One day when I was ill DD’s stepdad took her in his work van. Instructor said to DD “Your stepdad’s work van is an absolute state! Jesus Christ!” and was laughing about it. DD found it weird, and I do too. Completely unnecessary.

I don’t know what to do or who to complain to but I believe DD, she doesn’t lie. Maybe she’s been oversensitive about the baby thing and I’m willing to overlook that but the other incidents I think are just awful
The instructor knows of DD’s diagnosed anxiety and self-esteem issues. I can’t believe an adult is bullying her like this. I’ve met this instructor myself a couple of times and she is in general a very brash, loud personality and tbh hard as nails. I tried not to judge a book by its cover but these incidents have shown she’s not a very nice person. I struggle to believe that she can be in any way qualified for this job. Some of these kids have been through very recent bereavement. I can understand that sometimes when horses are involved an instructor will need to shout to stop a child about to get into a dangerous situation but I don’t feel this applies here.

It was the LA man who came round to ensure that DD wasn’t doing nothing with her home education time who referred me to it. I admitted I was struggling to find stuff to take her to that fit with my work hours and I said there was very little that she could go to for the day. He had a list that he gave me and this was on it, it sounded brilliant.

It’s very much an official LA funded/sponsored programme, you need a referral and the care kids get LA funded transport there.

Complain.
this is bullying. All these things would make me panic/be upset and I'm an adult!
this person should not be doing the course.
disgraceful

She's a vile bully and bullies quite often home in on one victim at a time, it makes the pain even worse when you have the "why me ?" factor and it's absolutely a conscious thing they do. They also have fragile egos, sadly this doesn't help your daughter, only to explain to her she hasn't done anything to invite this and she doesn't need to change who she is
Maybe look around at similar projects that involve working with abused animals, there's an understanding between animals and children that will benefit both of them, I think she'd do really well in that situation.

Should you fail to get anywhere with the stables I would take it up with the Local Authority department who commissioned the activity.
The activity is specifically provided for children who would be crushed by bullying.
It seems like a safe-guarding issue to me, again you could report to LA safe-guarding team.

So there is your starting point for making a safeguarding disclosure - not a complaint, a report of multiple serious safeguarding incidents.

All these cop out activities are tick boxes for the kids who think that the real world is going to be gentler than school.
It's not.
Send her back to school where the staff are accountable and trained.

just to put another another side here, yes this instructor does sound unpleasant and unsuitable for such a role.
however if she perceives your DD as clumsy/unreliable, i can see why she would not risk her holding the baby.
so that part may be personal but for a safety reason.
whether she is correct or not, if that is her perception, she must put the baby first.

You take her out, citing safeguarding voncerns. You write a letter to the LEA that recommended it and copy it yo the Riding school. You detail the verbal abuse and intimidating behaviour and name the individual. Then you look for somewhere else.

I don’t know if I would call this bullying as she isn’t a teacher and some instructors (especially when they work with animals) are just like this. Of course that doesn’t make her the best person to work with kids.

Having said that horse riding is dangerous which is something overlooked and the instructions do have to be followed - not in a time and way that doesn’t disturb a troubled teen but in a timely way that means injuries are less likely. I mean we aren’t talking about a petting zoo with lambs, these are big animals and people can get hurt if instructions aren’t followed.

Tbh OP, even though this woman is brash, have you thought maybe horse riding isn’t for your dd right now? Yes it might seem like good therapy, but it’s dangerous and there are more important things to worry about than hurt feelings when your dealing with animals that large.

I honestly can’t believe people think this woman is excused because she’s “horsey”, and that’s what they’re like.

No. There’s no excuse for anyone to behave like this. It’s vile bullying. Even in sport it’s now recognised as unacceptable.

ask yourself, if someone treat you like this at work, would it be ok?

if not, it’s not ok for children to be treat like that either. Whether it’s horses, gymnastics, school, anything.

@Crazykatie
This.

There are far more pressing things to worry about with large animals than hurt feelings, and yeah, some people work with animals because they don’t give a shit about people feelings or simply aren’t good at that kind of thing.

It's bullying without a shadow if a doubt, comimg from someone who teaches people to ride and who has been taught by some very strict and shouty instructors. Picking on someone about their dad's van, being picked up, swearing at them? Absolutely not. There's a vast difference between that kind of sniggering teenage snarkiness and constructive teaching. I've never felt the need to swear at one person ever in a lesson. I've never had to demean someone who is scared or doesn't know what to do. If she was any kind of teacher she would know this doesn't help at all. I've had bollockings for being wrong, but they were always lessons and were about the issue, not just to be mean. I shout for sure, but I don't make people feel like shit.
I'm a bit dubious about this place anyway from the OPs descriptions earlier about jumping lessons and handling. It sounds like a bit of a shit show.

I'd be interested to know if she is qualified as an instructor OP? Do you know?

It’s very much an official LA funded/sponsored programme, you need a referral and the care kids get LA funded transport there.

While the LA pointed you in the direction of the provision, and it would be a good idea to feedback to them, don’t be surprised if they don’t provide a huge amount of support as you are EHE.

As well as the LA I would complain to the proprietor.

Have you considered applying for an EHCNA? This type of provision (and a lot more) can be funded via an EHCP and then the LA would have more responsibility.

Welcome to the equine world! Plenty of these types about.

OP you need to look for somewhere that specialises in this kind of therapeutic work with specialist staff because this sounds like it's just been cobbled together.

There are bullies everywhere, children and adults. You need to get her away from this place immediately. Yes, she will miss out. But she won’t be bullied.

Does it aid safety to be derogatory about the van a child parent drives?

I work at an ARB with teens with SEND and SEMH.

Many of the ones with ASD do tend to be very overly sensitive.
I had a phone call from a parent because a boy went home saying I hate him and he’s ruined my life and it was because I told him not to come into the office without locking - I didn’t shout or be angry and he didn’t go home and blatantly lie but this is how he saw it.

Your DD does sound like she’s being over sensitive over a couple of the things you’ve mentioned.
Either because of her ASD/anxiety or because when you know someone doesn’t like you, you are more aware of their behaviour.

Or this women could simply be a bitch and not good at working with teens especially those with SEND.

I absolutely would complain.
I would complain to the company itself and the person who gave you the name of it.

It doesn’t have to be an all guns blazing complaint - you could mention the swearing under her breath because she was struggling with the gate as she has difficulties with her fine motor skills.

If it carries on then I’d pull her out and try and find somewhere else instead.

@Onwards22 genuinely interested, did get communication training when you qualified to deliver sessions to young people with SEN?

I told him not to come into the office without locking -
Why not phrase this differently? If you go to the office, make sure that the door is locked because x, y, z reason.

Your DD does sound like she’s being over sensitive over a couple of the things you’ve mentioned.
She has ASD she is not over sensitive maybe you are insensitive?

I can't believe that someone who speaks like you about people with ASD is actually qualified to deliver such a sensitive service.

Gosh I'm glad my dc are not into riding, I wouldn't want them to be around adults who don't understand the needs of vulnerable children.

@howler21 are you willing to give this up and have pets, maybe a dog? It doesn't sound like the horsey people are very inclusive or diverse.

I am assuming this is something like 'Think like a Pony' (sorry not sure this is national or just local) and if advertised as such there is no excuse at all and it totally goes against the whole point of the programme.

Yes horsey people can be brash and matter of fact, however if a programme is advertised as a therapeutic space for young people to gain confidence from interaction and learning to care for horses there is absolutely no excuse. I have referred vulnerable young people to similar and it has been amazing for them (when I can get a place/funding) however none have had such experiences.

Nothing to add to some of the excellent advice already given here, but it is certainly not ok. Hopefully it can be resolved with the coordinator/ owner however you must make the LA aware as well. They cannot continue to recommend it if necessary safeguarding issues (which this is) are not properly addressed. I hope your daughter is still able to benefit and enjoy her sessions, it does not sound like she is the problem here.

Youre all making me feel much betterabout mybrush with the riding club.

It's absolutely bullying, way beyond the scope of a harsh and shouty riding instructor. I had one those. She would kick off about the slightest possibility of damage to tack, call you useless and everything.

She never once swore at us kids though and she would never have made a comment about someone's parents' vehicle. She also wasn't stupid, despite being a mean old bugger so would never have let an inexperienced child open a gate onto a road if horses could escape.

I think you should make a complaint. I'd be inclined to speak to the LA first though. Focus on the swearing, insults and dangerous thing with the gate overall. The thing with the baby, plus her walking across the yard alone are explainable away (include them for more detail but not as the main issue). If you go straight to the yard owner, you might find out that it's their daughter or friend and it'll become your daughter's word against hers.

They need someone suitable for the role who knows how to work with vulnerable children. However, even for horse mad kids with thick skins who are used to being yelled at, much this behaviour would be entirely inappropriate.

As a close friend of a horsey person who has spent a lot of time around them, I agree with much of this. Riding instructors, in particular, are notorious for being blunt, shouty ‘no-nonsense’ characters who find dealing with horses easier than dealing with people. Sometimes this is absolutely necessary when dealing with clueless inexperienced people around large, unpredictable, potentially dangerous yet very fragile animals.