To not get a job because I’m a sahm

[velvetcandy]

So after 8 years being a sahm I’ve decided to go back to work. Had a very good interview last week, the role was actually half the salary I had before I had kids and a lower position but still the same area of work etc.

the feedback was, that I was perfect but they were worried because I’ve been out of work for so long so gave the job to a recent grad. I have over ten years experience plus a degree.

aibu to think this is unfair?

8 years is a long time to be out of the workplace though, I'd try and volunteer somewhere of join an agency to get some short term work to add something recent to the CV.

Why not?

maybe just because the line manager is more confident/comfortable managing an inexperienced one.
Also, you stated the role was lower position and half the salary - you probably are just overqualified. Go for the next (and better) one!

Its not unfair

They will expect you to arrange childcare around your working hours rather than changing the hours to suit you. Your childcare responsibilities are not their issue.

I don't believe they are allowed to mention children or childcare unless you bring it up yourself, which you clearly did and that was a mistake.

It doesn't matter what qualifications or experience you have, because you have 8 years of no experience whatsoever. You haven't said what the job is - possibly you need to keep up to date with latest trends, systems etc and you haven't.

Have you done any kind of volunteering, any kind of distance learning courses, anything at all to show you haven't just been been raising your kids? So many SAHM get involved in running playgroups and that sort of thing.

Overqualified after having 8 years not doing the role? Unlikely. There aren't many jobs where some stuff doesn't change in that time, sure the fundamentals probably don't but other stuff does. I think their feedback was probably accurate in how they felt and no need to be thinking what they actually meant.

To be fair the working world has changed so much in the last couple of years, from working culture to technology. It’s also fairly unlikely to get a job from just one interview (especially if out of practice with interviews) anyway. It’s a game of luck sometimes and giving it as many goes as possible.

Would it be possible to do some volunteering, just to have some recent experience and a recent reference? Otherwise you need to find other ways to show you’re still up to date and not “behind”.

I also think it won’t do you any favours to look down on and make assumptions about others. How do you (and the posters saying for example the grad will only have education on their CV) know that the winning candidate doesn’t have experience? Many students work throughout their degrees, in jobs with transferable skills, or sometimes even highly relevant roles or internships. DD worked in HR while at uni and then changed fields after graduating for example.

Every candidate has strengths and weaknesses, don’t think of yourself as more or less deserving than others, just work out how to play to your strengths and downplay your weaknesses.

You may have had 10 years' prior experience, but if you've been out of the workplace for 8+ (which is a long time if you work in a field such as IT or professional services), then of course a recent grad is going to have more up-to-date skills, even if they don't have the 'hit the ground running' experience.

Have you maintained your CPD / professional certifications / qualifications?

I find it so sad, that even on Mumsnet people are willing to accept the view that children are a liability. I have known people to be unreliable for all sorts of reasons, so being a parent returning to work shouldn't automatically mean that you will be flaky.

I would be wondering why you are willing to undersell yourself though.

Agree. They put you in an awkward spot, OP, by directly asking about the hours, but you would have done better to dodge the question.

Also, it sounds as if you assumed that the late start would be ok, as long as you made up the time. That would wind me up as a potential employer, because there might be a good reason why they needed you in at 8.30 - maybe a long-standing employee has requested a later start, and they needed you to cover, for example.

My organisation is very flexible - almost our entire workforce works flexible hours - but to have someone deciding at interview stage that it's Ok to change the advertised hours, without even asking if that's all right, would be a red flag.

It's possible that they thought you were willing to take a low salary to get some recent experience, then be off like a shot as soon as something better came up.

You seem determined that the reason you didn’t get the job is because you have kids, but you don’t actually know. Quite a few posters have asked what you’ve done to ensure you’ve stayed up to date and you appear like you’re deliberately avoiding the question.

Well I mean technically they are, someone with children (well women let's be honest) are more likely to require last minute leave, annual leave at specific times of the year ie school holidays, have to leave part way through the day to pick up poorly children etc. I'm obviously not saying that means we should be discriminated against and not given chances because of this, but seems a bit naieve to think children have no impact on someone's working life. Again, mainly women. I doubt many men take years off and then say at interview one morning they'll come in later.

This as well. The correct time to bring it up is as a point of negotiation after receiving an offer. Not deciding it’s a done deal at interview.

If they ask about hours again just give a generic answer, it’s not like you’re expecting half the hours or something.

Are you still with your children’s father OP? Is it just you who is expected to have a flexible job or is he also looking for flexibility? Presuming he is in a stable role it would probably be easier for him to try for flexibility rather than adding another barrier to you re entering the workplace. Depending how long he has worked in his role he may also be legally entitled to submit a flexible working request, which you wouldn’t be.

Remember an interview goes both ways

you interviewed them to see if they valued employees enough to be a bit flexible on times. (By the way I think you were fine to raise that at interview rather than ambush them after offer). If that’s the reason they don’t offer then fine, they’ve failed your interview anyway and they’re not the company for you.

same with you vs graduate. If they don’t value you, they are not the right company for you.

It's May. So a grad will at least have something on their CV to cover the time since leaving university (which might have been 2 or 3 years ago).

And most university students work as well as study. Actually even my 17 year old has experience of 2 different part time jobs.

It was up to OP to sell herself - that's the point of the interview, and nothing she's said here suggests that she did. She can't expect to walk into the job on the basis of experience years' ago on the basis that she'll "pick it up quickly". She might, or she might not - it's up to her to convince the employer.

Honestly, it is unfair, but I think perhaps you’re not really aware of how competitive any employment is now. For all the bullshit going around there have been increasing numbers of people chasing decreasing numbers of jobs for a long time and I don’t believe Covid has changed things that much. Naturally women carrying our greater responsibilities and family burdens mean we are seriously disadvantaged in comparison to men.

The very fact that they could get a recent graduate to do a job you say is half the wage you used to be on should tell you that.

We have urgently needed real conversations about the availability of employment, the wages offered for it, and how people are going to live in a world where computers do everything for a long time. There was a time when we were all going to work part time and men take equal shares of the domestic work, but everything has gone backwards, misogyny is growing, and everything has been focused on enriching the few by making the rest of us work harder for nothing for a very long time.

All you can do is look for what opportunities are open in your area, build different skills, and keep trying, but it is soul-destroying.

If you didn't get it because of the hours thing, you've probably all done each other a favour. Ultimately, it would be far preferable for you to have a family-friendly employer (or at least family tolerant) and not being willing to shift half an hour doesn't scream 'flexible'.

But that’s the reality, it may seem unfair but it’s not discrimination. They believed someone else was better qualified or experienced for the role.

I don’t think it’s unfair (or discriminatory) to want someone with more recent experience. In my industry and many others, 10 years of experience ending 8 years ago would be absolutely worthless.

It is potentially discriminatory to deny someone employment on the basis of their childcare obligations but it’s difficult to prove that’s the reason.

Rejoining the workforce after an extended period out can be extremely difficult and I think women are frequently led to believe it’s much easier than it is.

If they gave the job to a recent graduate that may mean you were over-qualified for the job. Companies are unlikely to hire someone who is over-qualified, as that limits growth potential.

OP, I think you need to start punching above your weight when it comes to applying. You might also consider volunteerwork to gain more recent experience for your resume.

I think this is the issue. You might have ten years experience, but you have been out of the workplace almost as long as you were in it so the two practically cancel each other out.

As I think someone mentioned upthread, you need to update your skills, work practices have changed massively in the last few years , and in the last two the changes have exploded. A recent graduate will be confident working in the new normal, your skills were first learned 18 years ago.

Bluntly. It's not discrimation, you can't work the hours they need.

Without sounding rude it's an employers market. We had over 100 applications for 1 job (science/medical degree needed), we interviewed 10 and were extremely picky.
It came down to tiny things the candidates said.

Tbh all the candidates could do the job, but we had the luxury of a lot of good candidates for a single position.

I wouldn't be disheartened, it's tough!

Yes, to a degree, but most working mums I know are also super efficient and get things done (personally I got cured of my procrastination tendencies, once I knew I needed to leave at 6pm on the dot, instead of hanging around in the office to finish stuff). So what is wrong with a bit of flexibility?

Also, and this is purely anecdotal, the worst 2 offenders I had in my teams were a single woman with two ageing cats and a new graduate, who seemed unable to get to work on time.

It is a horrid business coming back from being a sahm.

I have the right job for my family situation now, but it took a long time and I had to kiss a lot of frogs.

God, it was degrading! So many of my interviewers didn’t even get back to me.

The place I now work is full of older women who took time off to raise kids, so they didn’t see my career break as an indication that I was defective.

In addition to being viewed with suspicion, I also got offered work on an unpaid basis by some employers (!).

It was astonishing to me that I had such experience and expertise, and yet was not getting employed even in quite mediocre places. I wonder if they got a sense that I saw it all as a bit of a comedown.

What bridged the gap was that I went freelance for a bit. At least I know that I could do that if I am ever in that situation again.

Good luck, OP - you will YANBU and you will get the right thing in the end.