Is Starmer seriously going to resign???

[Swayingpalmtrees]

I have been waiting for a thread to come up about this, but I can't see one to date. I can't believe Keir Starmer has now said he will resign (and Angela Rayner as well) Potentially leaving the Labour party with no leader at all!

Looking at the 'evidence' that is well known and has been published, it appears the Indian takeaway was pre ordered (due to its size) and pre planned according to the staff at the Indian and the leaked memo, it did include quite a number of people and bottles of beer etc and drinking. It was late into the night, so not work related, and no one is suggesting anyone continued to work afterwards as it was so late. I don't see how this is any different to the No10 arrangements! So how on earth will they avoid a fine??

Sir Keir's speech was so wobbly I actually thought he was resigning there and then, and although I appreciate the sentiments of integrity and honour, where on earth does that leave the LP with under two years to the election or less?

Who would replace him? Do we have any thoughts on a plan of any kind?

I am kind of aghast, we are in the middle of a European war, on the cusp of potentially WW3, I am not sure this is a responsible action given the seriousness of our predicament with Russia whom are threatening us on a weekly basis with nuclear war. At the very very least, we need a firm hand on the tiller, so to speak, we do not have time to be squabbling over beer and cheese.
AIBU?

Actually thinking about it, when our workers are away from home and therefore claim meals on expenses the subsistence agreement we have with HMRC are that we are allowed to provide/reimburse a glass of wine or beer when taken with a meal

The fact the tories are falling over themselves pointing fingers when it is in no way comparable is so transparent to me

now hang on, the tories and their media cheerleaders have repeatedly told us that they’re busy ‘getting on with the job’ and we’d all do well to remember there’s a war on (not our war but still). Surely you’re not implying that they have room for anything else, certainly nothing so petty, with a buffet of multiple crisis’ to deal with?

I mean poor old Boris pledged that a border in the Irish Sea would only happen ‘over his dead body’. I’m not sure if he’s operating from the great beyond or constantly concerned the reaper is going to catch up with him but the poor lamb is working in really difficult times with that hanging over him.

shame on you.

/here endeth the sarcasm

It wasn't a party. £200 for a takeaway for about 15 people is pretty standard I would think.

The test was whether it was reasonably necessary for work.

If you have 15 people working throughout the day, and working in some cases until 1 and 2am, then of course breaking to eat is reasonably necessary.

On the other hand, stopping to have cake and sing happy birthday, or have cheese and wine, or karaoke or any of the other plainly non-work events at No 10 were not even slightly reasonably necessary for the purposes of work.

As for drinking a beer with a meal, all that chat is irrelevant.

If you work somewhere where that would be acceptable or unacceptable doesn't matter - all that matters is whether it was lawful or unlawful. And it obviously is not and was not.

FWIW - I work somewhere where it would be hugely frowned upon to have a drink with lunch and go back to to work. But on the other hand, I have also been in situations where I've been working late (midnight or 1am) and in those situations it is extremely common for there to be some takeaway and some drinks brought in.

Most workplaces can distinguish between what is acceptable when you're working a normal 9-5 day, and what is acceptable when you're working a 16 hour day that finishes at midnight or beyond. For the latter, what is unacceptable at lunchtime becomes quite acceptable in the evening.

It's a bit like dress codes - if I'm working a normal day, I am expected to be pretty well turned out in proper business wear. If the day ends and I need to work another 8 hours, it's not uncommon for people to change into their 'civvies'. Because any employer understands that if you're asking an employee to work v late, it's reasonable that they are going to be a bit more comfortable and a bit more relaxed while doing so - whether because they've changed into trainers and jeans, or because they've had a beer with their dinner.

I see this car crash of a thread is still going. Gotta hand it to the boris-bot OP, they're really worked overtime.

Not to mention all of the posters who are so overinvested they've wasted literally hours of their lives responding.

you’re judging people for being on a forum whilst on a forum?

I wonder if Stamer drank the beer or it was just there. Why drink if you have 3 hours of work to come? I don't think lawyers who routinely work late of which Stamer was one do do that. I agree that drinks after work on a business trip might be normal for some but not when you then have to carry on with work surely.

Employment law says you can take your scheduled break during a work shift or at the end. Every exploited teenager knows this. It is still your break.

Any adult can pretty much look at that footage and see that is a load of adults standing around talking shop whilst shovelling food down. Starmer still has his specs on.

Depends on the type of work - I am a lawyer, I often work late at night. I wouldn't drink if I was preparing submissions or a cross examination for the next day. But meeting for a debrief/planning strategy/meet the clients working dinner - yes might do (though obviously wouldn't expect anyone to start karaoke/trashing children's slides etc...)

If its 10pm and you're going to do another couple of hours work after dinner, yes, many very normal people would have a beer or a glass of wine or whatever with dinner.

I still haven't seen the regulations in plaec at the date he did this to check if he broke the law. I don't drink ever so am not the best person I suppose to advise on drinking whilst working!

There’s a photo of him holding it. He could have been holding it for a friend. As for drinking when he had three hours of work ahead of him: for refreshment, a break in a gruelling schedule. He’s a hefty-looking man drinking one bottle of beer – no idea on its alcohol content but probably not a fancy 9% indie stout – on a stomach full of Indian takeaway, ahead of some emails and discussions. It’s not like he did a line of tequila slammers and a dentist’s chair before PMQs.

The problem xenia is that every time the regulations changed they were updated on the legislation.gov.uk and you really have to know what you are doing to find out what was in place at a time in the past (you being a lawyer would probably be the best placed out of all of us to attempt this).

I can only go from my memory of having read the whole damn thing back then and I don't think there was any law against it.

OP, these are some of the questions I was referring to that you haven't answered. Google is not going to be a great help. Any chance of you answering?

And here's some more questions the answers to which aren't available on Google. But maybe you don't have answers either, OP?

So you understand that some people start work at 6am and work through to 6pm, but can’t imagine that some industries start at 9:30-10am, and often worth through to 10pm?

Not every office is like your specific office you know.

I've known lawyers who have certainly carried on working after having a bottle of beer. It's not as if Starmer was engaged in drafting complex contract documents or preparing for a major trial.

He wont be fined. He was working away from home, how was he supposed ti get food? K thimk i know whuch takeaway it was,everything is made fresh and £200 would get yiu maybe meals. Fewer if booze was included

If I were caught drinking bottle of beer at work, I would be sacked immediately. They were clearly not working, it was 10pm at night!

Do you work a very standard 9-5, OP? Can you really not see that some people work late, or different hours?

9-5 or late at night, swigging bottles of beer at work would get me my P45 quicker than I could say cheers

I wish he hadn't said that,because he will have to honour that.I know he doesn't want to be like Boris but he's one of the more decent people in politics and we need him!

No he’s not, because he didn’t break the rules!

I wish he works resign though as I’d like a different labour leader!

*would
sorry, typo!

If is he fined and resigns surely that will put ever increasing amounts of Pressure onto BoJo to resign. It might been seen as Keir falling on his sword to get Boris out!

You never worked at 10pm OP? Plenty of others do.

It was a work meeting, they ordered takeaway. It isn’t the same as what Boris and his lot were up to at all.