To ban talk of children in the workplace?

[Kanfuzed123]

Chatted to my friend today over coffee. She’s snr leadership at quite a big company, very successful and generally v lovely. She is struggling ttc, and the ‘wrong side of 35’ (quote is from a dr she has seen not me)

She mentioned She wanted to escalate a work issue around a few specific individuals, talking about their children. She wanted to escalate this higher and ban talk of children at work and get thr repeat offenders basically ‘told off’… not a disciplinary but getting someone more snr than her (and she’s pretty snr) to talk to them as they’ve been ‘upsetting people’ over ‘repeated insensitive comments’.

To be clear this isn’t the case of people saying ‘why don’t you have kids?’ ‘When are you having them’ because I do think there could be a conversation there. It seemed more of office chit chat like hi Bob what did you do this weekend?’ ‘Well Dave I took my kids to the aquarium’ sort of thing or you know introductory calls/ getting to know each other, ‘hi I’m Dave, 45, background in computer programming, originally from New Zealand, 2 kids both are football mad and a cocker spaniel called fluffy’ sort of thing

I’ve been through infertility myself and it’s hell, but I think to raise this issue higher and actively ban your direct reports talking of their family is not the sort of precedent to set. I actually think suggesting it to people higher up will not make her look good at all and could be a HR issue. Where does the line get drawn, can people talk about or mention their parents? Someone has probably lost a parent somewhere in the wider team etc.

I could tell she was quite worked up about it today over our coffee so I didn’t say anything about it from a ‘don’t do that’ point of view but we’re going shopping tomorrow and I do feel like I should maybe say something as when she gets sometbing in her head she does plough ahead with it and I think it doesn’t make her look too good.

am I wrong?

I am in a similar situation to you invincible and I can really relate to what you say. My colleagues with grown up children are such a support! There may be light at the end of the tunnel, or at least other problems!

I try to be kind to the well-meaning office junior who always used to say cheerily on a Friday morning "how did you enjoy your day off'? Eventually I had to explain how I tend to spend my days "off" (which I'm not paid for obviously). She was rather sobered by what I need to do on those days.

I did find baby talk difficult when I was suffering infertility but I tried not to hang around with those people. Remote working has at least got rid of those types who interrogate you about your lunch...

I can see Zoom/Teams is a challenge in the avoiding people regard though. My DC developed a good trick in lockdown. You hold up a piece of paper saying your mic isn't working and it magically fixes later...

I had this in my previous role. Manager couldn’t have kids and 4 of us pregnant. They banned pregnant talk- wtf

Hmm she's not in a good place 😬

Also when I was in shock I blurted out that I was pregnant as it wasn’t planned and she didn’t speak to me- I apologised and she had a go and said I should of told her in private- I mean wtf- I didn’t know her full infertility story just snippets from others- but I felt awful for being pregnant

Well if this post is true, then surely its just a natural progression of the ' if I am offended then it was offensive' line of thinking in society at the moment.

Because this is what happens when you want to link the private feeling of being offended to action being taken against other people who you blame for your offended feeling.

As a society we need to take a massive step back from this line of thinking. Its pernicious and unhealthy.

I wonder if her stance would change if and when she had children?

I can imagine it's difficult for her, but you can't police as such smalltalk, surely? Those of us with tiny kids, whose lives revolve around them at the moment, wouldn't really be able to say anything otherwise!

Plus at work, there was a blog from someone returning from mat leave at work about balancing baby + work, and another blog about someone being pregnant during lockdown. At that point, i did have a quiet word with the head of comms and suggest that maybe some people didn't want all things baby related pushed down their throat on the front of the intranet and perhaps we could keep the blogs to be work related. 🙄 I also drank a lot of gin to console myself.

I know you were struggling, and six pregnancy announcements in one week must've been awful, but I think you were really unreasonable here. I have two young children and trying to maintain my career while they are small is something i have found incredibly difficult. Lots of people have caring responsibilities of one sort or another and the difficulty of balancing that and work isn't something that should be ignored or silenced. Especially because the majority of people who struggle with this are women and it's a huge barrier to women's careers and economic independence. It SHOULD be on the front page of the intranet.

Well done. I've learned from my time in the workplace that recent experience is what employers want above all else. I've never worried about being able to return to the workplace. I've entered back in a couple of times in completely different roles by gaining recent experience and drawing on old experience.

if I was her boss, it would make me question that individuals potential to be a people manager

Absolutely this! She will look ridiculous.

“Why don’t you have kids, Suzy?” = obviously not acceptable.

”I’m off for the weekend now, Suzy - I’m taking the kids camping so no chance of an after work drink for me tonight!” = perfectly acceptable.

”How was your weekend?”
”Fine thanks. Lucy had a ballet competition and Josh was playing football and we all went for a pizza.” = not exactly scintillating, but perfectly reasonable as a topic of conversation in the workplace.

She is being ridiculous…..

Plus at work, there was a blog from someone returning from mat leave at work about balancing baby + work, and another blog about someone being pregnant during lockdown. At that point, i did have a quiet word with the head of comms and suggest that maybe some people didn't want all things baby related pushed down their throat on the front of the intranet and perhaps we could keep the blogs to be work related

How people ( mainly women) balance work and family is work related. How companies support parents (again, mainly affects women) is work related. The differential impact of caring responsibilities on women's careers is work related.

On my first day back from work after losing a baby I was presented with a congratulations card to sign for a colleague who had just given birth. Did I run off to the toilet to howl and cry in overwhelming pain and distress? Yes. Did I at any point think that my workplace should ban ' congratulations on your baby card'? No.

Well if this post is true, then surely its just a natural progression of the ' if I am offended then it was offensive' line of thinking in society at the moment.

@smallbirdwidesky makes a really good point here….

The only way this would be reasonable is if all personal chat were banned.

I have a friend who I sometimes do some fill in work for. My friend unfortunately has also struggled with fertility and may never have a baby so I do try to limit how much I mention my kids as I know it hurts her but she would never hold it against me or her other workers for talking about our kids.

I think you need to gently, very gently and with kindness try to help your friend get some perspective. People are allowed to talk about the other things in their life even if is sadly something that hurts her if they are being reasonable and not purposefully hurting her.

Myself and my husband couldn't have kids, so I get that. BUT her idea of planning to ban talk of children at work is batshit. Children and pregnant women are everywhere and unavoidable. Is she going to get onto the council and propose no kids in the park during the times she goes to walk the dog or go for a jog? Protest against the opening of Jojo Maman Bebe on the High Street? Get on to the LEA to demand any school she passes on her daily commute can not have kids coming or going at the same time? Bonkers.

Families in the workplace should be encouraged. I'm trying to find my first job after uni and am having to hide a massive part of my life. It should be embraced, it's everyday life

That's bloody horrible!
When I was pregnant with my first, the office chat was all just pregnancy and babies. It was reassuring and lovely

I feel really bad for your friend, she's clearly really hurting from ttc. If it was people making direct comments to her about ttc etc when they are aware of her struggles that obviously would be something to complain about but chit chat about your children she can't stop that. I'd be worried she was going to get people's backs up and people will just ignore her if they feel they can't chit chat around her.

When I first started to work in an office when I graduated age 21/22 it used to drive me nuts how much people talked about their children constantly, i found it boring and irritating as i just didnt relate. Now I'm late 30s with 3 young children I kind of get that when you are at that stage there isn't much else going on in your life to talk about. I try not to talk about mine as I remember how irritating it is, but a direct question about what did you do at the weekend short of make something up it's going to involve mentioning something you've done involving your children. I've never harped on constantly about them though like people in my first office did, more out of respect of those who find kid chat dull, like I used to.

Your friend sounds like the office dictator in the making. If successful, what would she ban next? How do these types of people become managers?

It doesn’t sound like you actually like this friend much from the way you talk about her ‘ego’ and ‘disdain’.

I suspect she is having you on and you are being a bit gullible. I think she’ll laugh you out of the room today when you try to ‘ground’ her.

I knew someone like this who was also TTC and would get very upset at any talk of children. Whilst we sympathised with her, it really isn't fair to tell people what they can and can't talk about.

Thanks for your thoughts everyone.

i think I’m going to start by talking about how in my first pregnancy my manager told me my pregnancy (which I hadn’t announced) was making people uncomfortable and I should have been more considerate and then proceeded to make my life hell and I had awful complications that nearly meant still birth… hopefully as she knows my kids that situation will seem objectively horrid and she’ll get it.

realistically if she really wants all child related conversation to be stopped I think the only way she can do it would be to tell her manager it’s really upsetting due to her infertility and then ask her manager to ask the whole department to not mention kids because it’s really traumatic for her right now due to her dealing with infertility. But then she has to accept that the entire department know her business and will likely talk behind her back when realistically right now, people probably haven’t given a second thought as to why she doesn’t have kids

Please don’t do this, she doesn’t need to be saddled with your pregnancy story. And it’s just manipulative.

Either tell her straight or stay out of it.

i think I’m going to start by talking about how in my first pregnancy my manager told me my pregnancy (which I hadn’t announced) was making people uncomfortable and I should have been more considerate and then proceeded to make my life hell and I had awful complications that nearly meant still birth… hopefully as she knows my kids that situation will seem objectively horrid and she’ll get it.

I really don’t think you’re the right person to speak to your friend. You’re making it all about you.

I used to work with a guy who won some money and invested in crypto, he was worth over £1M but continued his normal job to start with

Work tried to stop him talking about crypto but didn't get anywhere. I always thought it was due to jealousy

Your friend is BU

She knows it already as she was there at the time but I get where you’re coming from. No personal anecdotes

She sounds to me like she needs help as she's really struggling at the minute. I've been through baby loss and its the worst thing. You wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy.
She can access counselling and support from certain organisations, or maybe your company has counselling she can access? If you have a trusting relationship with her do you think you could gently raise it with her?