Why are people on here so pressed about the existence of SAHMs?

[DaffodilsandCoffee]

It’s fair enough to point out the existence of certain downsides are risks, but there seems to be so much spite and resentment on here. Why are some posters do angry at the existence of women who prefer to do all the childcare themselves rather than outsource some of it? Also, are they equally as angry at SAHDs? (I know it’s not as common but I personally know 3)

TopGub - what I meant was, if the wife's income would be insignificant in the overall family finances (which is often the case in the type of families I'm talking about) there may well be no point in her doing going to work just to make some kind of point. Absolutely fair enough if she's not cut out to be a SAHM, or she needs her job for her sanity as so many do. But all women are different. In our case, we decided my input with the kids is if more 'value' to the family than any extra money I could have earned. I'm not going to go to work and make my own life and the lives of my kids and husband more complicated than they are at present - just for the hell of it. If I hadn't have wanted to be a SAHM, then obviously I'd have a job. But these are the circumstances I'm in. In another set of circumstances, I may well have returned to work looong ago.

Also, quite a lot of women have been 'trailing spouses' at some point or another. I have myself in the past. But again, it's a particular context for such decisions.

@Louise0701

A sahm cares for their children, looks after their house?

Surely you're just unemployed?

Or a lady who lunches?

People are generally annoyed at SAHPs who say things like "I didn't have children for someone else to bring them up" and radiate an air of smugness. And there's a certain amount of frustration at women who unwittingly put themselves in precarious financial positions.

This.

My other bugbears are:

• people who complain they are hard up but don't want to woh even where it would improve the family budget
• people who think one partner can refuse to work where the other partner doesnt agree
• people who think the government/benefits should be structured to provide for parents of school children to choose not to work
• people who expect to take 10 years out of work to be a sahm then waltz back into a senior/well paid career at the same level

@mijas

Why would these degree educated, extremely motivated and energetic women only be capable of an insignificant income compared to their male ohs?

Out of 100s none of them could manage to earn a significant amount?!

@Topgub working mums say they look after their children outside of school hours, does that not apply to me?
my children also have longer school holidays than those in state schools so they’re technically with me more than most.

I am both unemployed and a lady who lunches, yes. Whatever label people want to attach is fine. I don’t work and most probably never will but I will continue my charity and voluntary work until retirement age and maybe beyond, health permitting.

Meh I took 2 years off to stay at home with DS, admittedly though it was more beneficial for me than for him- I loved not working hah. When maternity leave was up DH was very much supportive of me going back to work or taking some time out, whatever I wanted to do, and he has been great since I've been back at work as well, I'm very fortunate to have had the choice.

@Louise0701

Sorry I thought you said you had a nanny but I may have mixed you up with someone else.

Most kids I know who go to private school go to loads of extra clubs out with the school hours too.

I disagree with posters who say having a SAH partner doesn’t benefit the man’s career. It benefits them enormously. Many women burn out before they reach the top because they do not have sufficient support at home and become exhausted.

I think this is more of a example of women still taking on a disproportionate proportion of childcare and looking after the home (and potentially also care of elderly parents). You never hear of men burning out (I'm sure they must exist, but in smaller numbers) where both parents are working. I'd guess that that's because even in cases where the man is pulling his weight, it's till generally less than what the woman does.

Interestingly, amongst my male colleagues, I've seen that the pandemic has caused a little bit of a change. I have many male colleagues who were able to work at home, while their female partner worked out of the home, and said male colleagues ended up picking up more of the childcare slack. I have one male colleague who now permanently works flexible hours to allow him to care for his children after school while his wife is at work, for example. It's still too little but possibly a step in the right direction.

Out source what? My child is at school. I don't outsource anything I cannot possibly take my child to work. What you seem to be missing is my house still needs cleaning and the laundry still needs doing, the cooking and so on. I don't have the money to outsource these things!

SaHM children also go to school.

If these people claiming they would never be a SAHM won £200 million on the lottery I doubt they’d continue to work in these jobs they claim to love to much.

Oh I think you’re right - most people absolutely wouldn’t stay in their jobs if they won £200 million on the lottery. But it’s a pretty stupid argument because that £200 million would a) be more than enough to live on for the rest of their lives and b) would belong to them.

@Topgub no we don’t have a nanny.
my children are in school, although the youngest is in preschool so that’s only 15 hours.

DD does lots of clubs. She has longer days than most, usually getting home around 5pm but her Sundays are free.
Having said that, I suppose DC in wraparound care do similar hours to DD.

So would you call someone who stays at home to care for an elderly relative 'unemployed ' as well? I think thats really offensive. Caring for a baby or an elderly person is a job - they need to be cared for and someone has to do it. If your child goes to nursery, the nursery workers care for your child - it's still a job that needs to be done. I chose to look after my own baby. I took on that job. I didnt get paid for it, i did it out of love for my child. When they started Reception, I got a job outside of the home instead. Now my mother is elderly, I care for her in her home. Again, I dont get paid, I do it out of love.

You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't when it comes to all sorts of parenting decisions, I think.

I see myself as lucky enough to be in the position to be a SAHM with my children while they are young. I've always wanted to be around as much as possible to make childcare easier during holidays or if they are ill, be able to attend school events etc. My husband works two jobs so that I can do it - he's hopeful of turning the second job into a more prosperous full time career eventually.

I don't think there's an ideal situation for most. There's always the desire to spend more time with your kids or outwith the home or with other adults or get more money. Do whatever works for your family and mind you're own business when it comes to others!

The only time I've ever had a proper go at a SAHM was during lockdown, on a thread about homeschooling. She was an utterly insufferable smug twat, and iirc came out with the following (among other gems):

I don't know why people have children if they don't want to look after them.
People need to stop treating school as free childcare.
People should have PLANNED for mass school closures due to a pandemic (yes, really). Then she claimed she was a SAHM because she'd planned for just such an eventuality.

I can't remember her name, but she was a right wanker.

Wondering now if the above will be deleted... are we allowed personal attacks if they're accurate if we don't specify the wanker in question?

You don’t have a legal responsibility to provide care (or employ someone to provide care) for an elderly relative. By having and keeping your child you are a parent. How you fulfill that is something you have to arrange.

Its hard work to be a sahp but it’s not employment. As I said before, I have dogs. That’s not the same as a dog walker, dog daycare worker or a kennel worker.

I do my own taxes. That doesn’t make me an accountant.

A nursery worker is employed. They also have things they have to do legally, that a parent does not. It’s a different role.

You complain about language used and then say things like ‘I was a sahp out of love for my child’.

Thats no different.

I’m perfectly happy to acknowledge that I “outsource” the care of my children between 8 (when I drop them off) and 9 am (when school starts) and 3.30 and 6 (when I collect them). The only way to avoid it would be to work school hours only or work from home, both of which would limit my opportunities. I really don’t get why this is such a controversial thing to point out.

I’m grateful that high-quality wrap-around is available and affordable, and that my children don’t have to be latchkey kids like the children of working mothers in my generation did.

@CurlyBurley

No, I'd call a carer a carer.

Its not the same as parenting. Even for children. Parents of disabled children are carers too.

As I said, I thought Louise had a nanny and a cleaner, Gardner, etc etc.

I wouldnt describe someone who has no responsibility for the majority of the day at home a sahp.

Not sure why thats rude.

@SinaraSmith Its hard work to be a sahp but it’s not employment.

It's not hard work. It's easy. I know, I've done both, sahm and working mum. Sahm was a doddle.

@ThatsBullshirt

I wouldnt consider my oh having to work 2 jobs lucky.

I actually suspect SAHDs get a harder time than SAHMs.

My SIL is a SAHM to secondary school children so basically spends the day on hobbies, going to the gym, meeting friends for lunch. She also has a cleaner. Some people (me) slightly raise an eyebrow that she (she's one of the degree educated, motivated women mentioned above) has no desire to do something more worthwhile with her time, but, hey, each to their own.

However, this is still socially acceptable for a woman, in a way that I suspect it wouldn't be for a man - where there would be even more barbs about him not working to provide for his family/lounging around all day etc.

@Topgub i agree with you; those roles are definitely carers. Being a parent isn’t a job and I don’t like the “being a mum is the hardest job” stuff either.

I am guilty of the cleaner and gardener but that’s because DH and I are completely hopeless as gardening and I do keep on top of the house day to day but she comes weekly and does the big jobs 😂

It is the truth though. I didn't get paid, but it's still a job that needs to be done. I am not unemployed. It's a sad day when you can't say you do something out of love rather than money.

@CurlyBurley

You know wp do that job too right?

Well that's because I gave a very abridged version of our circumstances and you wouldn't know that he absolutely does not have to work two jobs but chooses to as a way of hopefully turning his "second" job as a freelancer into a full time career.