Page 7 | AIBU to think that women’s rape crisis therapy should NOT be mixed-sex?

IamSarah · 2022-05-01T09:02:05+00:00

Women’s rape crisis therapy in Sussex is currently mixed-sex. The women's groups are open to anyone, male or female, who identify as a woman. My women’s therapy group was attended by a male who presented outwardly as male. I am making a legal challenge to the Sussex Rape Crisis centre claiming that women who have been raped or sexually abused should have the option of single-sex female only therapy IF they want it. This would be in addition to the existing mixed-sex options. If you are thinking YANBU then please visit my Twitter page which has more information on how you can help women like me secure female only therapy: https://twitter.com/sarahsurviving If you are thinking YABU please let me know how you would explain this to your daughter, mother or sister if she’d been raped?

Mandodari · 04/05/2022 13:25

Idontknowwhat2do · 04/05/2022 13:05

Seems like I'm one of the few that think it, but YABU. If this is a crisis group, then surely they are the victim of rape too. And say its a trans woman, then the likelyhood is that she was raped as an outwardly presenting woman. But even if its not the case, men can be raped too and they deserve access to support just as much as women do.

I understand this could be a discomfort thing and not feeling comfortable around men, but making it a single-sex group opens it up to trans men so there could still be male-presenting people in your group.

Rape crisis groups are spaces for victims - of any sex or gender - to work through their trauma. Surely that's the focus, not what chromosomes and genitals somebody was born with.

If I'm out at night and am worried if that person is really following me , or why did that person sit beside me when the bus is empty except for a few people, I calm myself down not by thinking this is a big bloke, I wouldn't stand a chance against him physically, instead I concentrate on what trauma they may have been through. I now refuse to let a lifetime of being conditioned, as a woman, to be constantly aware to danger and instead will just concern myself with their traumas.

Idontknowwhat2do · 04/05/2022 13:26

LK1972 · 04/05/2022 13:15

Have you ever had rape counseling, 1:1 or group? Is this based on experience?

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Yes, I'm actually currently in rape councilling. It is my personal opinion based on my experiences. And maybe I just see it in a different way to you but I stand by my opinion.

Idontknowwhat2do · 04/05/2022 13:35

Mandodari · 04/05/2022 13:25

If I'm out at night and am worried if that person is really following me , or why did that person sit beside me when the bus is empty except for a few people, I calm myself down not by thinking this is a big bloke, I wouldn't stand a chance against him physically, instead I concentrate on what trauma they may have been through. I now refuse to let a lifetime of being conditioned, as a woman, to be constantly aware to danger and instead will just concern myself with their traumas.

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I see what you mean. But that is entirely different to what we are talking about here. A rape crisis group is a place where you go to specifically focus on trauma, with other trauma victims. That is a common ground. And it's likely that almost every single person in that group, man or woman, has those thoughts any time they are approached. BECAUSE of the trauma that they have been through.

If somebody can't handle group therapy because of a trigger then maybe 1:1 therapy would be a good first step. It's what I had to do. I found a specific person in the group very triggering so instead of demanding that they leave, I chose to take up 1:1 therapy until I was ready. That person shouldn't be denied support because of my triggers.

FrancescaContini · 04/05/2022 13:36

@Idontknowwhat2do
Are you a man or a woman?

Counselling.

Idontknowwhat2do · 04/05/2022 13:39

FrancescaContini · 04/05/2022 13:36

@Idontknowwhat2do
Are you a man or a woman?

Counselling.

I am a woman.

MRex · 04/05/2022 13:52

Idontknowwhat2do · 04/05/2022 13:35

I see what you mean. But that is entirely different to what we are talking about here. A rape crisis group is a place where you go to specifically focus on trauma, with other trauma victims. That is a common ground. And it's likely that almost every single person in that group, man or woman, has those thoughts any time they are approached. BECAUSE of the trauma that they have been through.

If somebody can't handle group therapy because of a trigger then maybe 1:1 therapy would be a good first step. It's what I had to do. I found a specific person in the group very triggering so instead of demanding that they leave, I chose to take up 1:1 therapy until I was ready. That person shouldn't be denied support because of my triggers.

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Are there free resources to give everyone 1:1 counselling until they are ready for mixed group therapy sessions? I doubt that. What easiest is actually to have a group for women, a group for men, and a mixed sex group for anyone who prefers that. Everybody has a place to go, everybody can get help. Now, unfortunately what's happened here to the OP is she found they have a group for men and a mixed group, but they let a man also attend the women's group. There were already multiple other options for the men, but he wanted to attend the women's group instead and so he was allowed to. It's unpleasant and unnecessary to disrupt therapy sessions for women. If mixed or men's groups are missing then those should be set up, and if they exist then there is no need for men to attend the women's session.

Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 04/05/2022 13:55

Just a reminder that in Sarah’s case there were mens and LGBTQ groups available to the TW but they apparently weren’t good enough and they wanted to be in with women

all Sarah did was ask for one single group to be only for women but that was too much apparently

Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 04/05/2022 13:56

Or what @MRex said!

Mandodari · 04/05/2022 13:57

@Idontknowwhat2do
I'm very sorry that yiu have experienced sexual violence but can you honestly not see how upsetting it would be for many many women to be speak about their experiences in front of a male? Can you not see how ripe for exploitation a mixed sex survivor's group would be by men who get their jollies from the thought of women being abused? My understanding is that Sarah is not asking for the mixed sex group to be disbanded but instead a single sex group for females to be re established.

Felix125 · 04/05/2022 14:12

Mandodari · 04/05/2022 13:57

@Idontknowwhat2do
I'm very sorry that yiu have experienced sexual violence but can you honestly not see how upsetting it would be for many many women to be speak about their experiences in front of a male? Can you not see how ripe for exploitation a mixed sex survivor's group would be by men who get their jollies from the thought of women being abused? My understanding is that Sarah is not asking for the mixed sex group to be disbanded but instead a single sex group for females to be re established.

I don't think that men who have been victim's or rape and serious sexual assaults would "...get their jollies from the thought of women being abused..." These men are victim's too.

I would agree that there should be single sex groups for survivors if they feel more comfortable with this.

As a rape trained police officer, i would point out though there are very few (if any) support groups for men who have suffered such crimes. Where we are I have none to offer them other than general organisations such as the crisis team, Samaritans or their own GP

LaBellina · 04/05/2022 14:28

YANBU. Ofcourse women don’t want men in a rape therapy group. Group therapy is already hard enough as it is, having to share your very personal experiences with strangers, leave alone having a man there when you talk about rape. How anyone can be so insensitive to come up with this idea is beyond me. Same as the men who attend these groups, it takes only a shred of empathy to understand that most women will not feel comfortable with their presence. Absolutely not on. Good luck with your cause. I hope you win.

Mandodari · 04/05/2022 14:32

@Felix125
How do you know if a man who turns up at womens group is a surviour? This is the whole point. You seriously cannot be so innocent not to think that there is a type of man (not all, but some) who would jump at the chance to say, yeah, I'm a victim, don't feel ready to talk but am happy to listen. Even if it is a minority, why take the risk.

DomesticatedZombie · 04/05/2022 14:39

I don't think that men who have been victim's or rape and serious sexual assaults would "...get their jollies from the thought of women being abused..." These men are victim's too.

Predatory males have all sorts of backgrounds and personal histories. I'm sure some of them have a history of abuse. This doesn't negate them being predatory males, or having a paraphilia. Paraphilias, as I'm sure you know, centre on non-consensual activity. Unfortunately, some men will find the idea of accessing a 'forbidden' space such as a rape survivors' group arousing.

LaBellina · 04/05/2022 14:43

You only have to look at the amount of rape porn that’s out there or listen to some of the horrific stories about what’s happening in Ukraine (and sadly many other conflict areas in the world) that men who find rape arousing aren’t a rarity. It’s naive to think none of them would go as far as using access to a rape therapy group for their own satisfaction. Male survivors of rape deserve support and therapy too which is why there are groups for women and trans women. There is absolutely no need for them to have access or to be included in a women’s therapy group. Unless you think ofcourse that women’s feelings don’t matter.

LaBellina · 04/05/2022 14:44

*groups for men and trans women

Original poster

IamSarah · 04/05/2022 15:39

@Idontknowwhat2do

Im sorry you have experienced sexual violence and im pleased that a mixed sex group works for you. I know that some women are happy with a mixed sex space.

However some women have a trauma response to males that they cannot help.

Why do you think single sex provision should not be offered in addition to mixed sex provision? Particularly for these women with male triggered PTSD?

OP posts:

titchy · 04/05/2022 15:51

I don't think that men who have been victim's or rape and serious sexual assaults would "...get their jollies from the thought of women being abused..." These men are victim's too.

Can you seriously not imagine a scenario where a male falsely claims to have been raped in order to access a mixed sex group and get off on the experiences of survivors?

Felix125 · 04/05/2022 16:13

Of course you will have predatory types who will target these groups.

I'm talking about actual survivors of rapes who are male and identify as male.
At the moment - I can offer them no support groups at all to help them other than their GP or the mental health crisis support.

What I am suggesting is that there should be groups available for them - that's all.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 04/05/2022 16:20

What I am suggesting is that there should be groups available for them - that's all

not one person on this thread has said anything different

Supersee · 04/05/2022 16:22

Felix125 · 04/05/2022 16:13

Of course you will have predatory types who will target these groups.

I'm talking about actual survivors of rapes who are male and identify as male.
At the moment - I can offer them no support groups at all to help them other than their GP or the mental health crisis support.

What I am suggesting is that there should be groups available for them - that's all.

That is a separate issue entirely. No one has stated that males shouldn't have their own male only support group.

Felix125 · 04/05/2022 16:28

I know - I am agreeing with notion

I'm just pointing out that there aren't any.
Perhaps there should be.

MRex · 04/05/2022 16:32

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 04/05/2022 16:20

What I am suggesting is that there should be groups available for them - that's all

not one person on this thread has said anything different

Quite.

@Felix125 - Nobody has said that men can't have a group all on their own and mixed, but Sussex HAVE said that women can't have a group on their own. If you can spot that it isn't nice for men to lack a group elsewhere, then maybe you can spot that women would also suffer from being unable to attend because it's been turned into another mixed group?

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 04/05/2022 16:32

So you thought it was appropriate to come onto a thread about a woman fighting for a female only group to complain that males don’t have one

maybe sarah could add that to her to do list when she’s finished with her current fight

(obviously not…)

caringcarer · 04/05/2022 16:44

Pretty obvious if you've been raped by a man, and are going for therapy the last pets you want to see is another man. Why oh why can't the woke see and understand this?

Felix125 · 04/05/2022 16:53

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 04/05/2022 16:32

So you thought it was appropriate to come onto a thread about a woman fighting for a female only group to complain that males don’t have one

maybe sarah could add that to her to do list when she’s finished with her current fight

(obviously not…)

The question posed was - "AIBU to think that women’s rape crisis therapy should NOT be mixed-sex?"

I agree - it shouldn't be, for all the reasons quoted above

I'm merely pointing out that at present, there isn't any such groups (in our local vicinity) for male survivors. So maybe a 'male survivor' was allowed to attend a female only group for help an support as that 'male survivor' was really struggling and this was the only such group that could help.

In an ideal world there should be a male group, a female group, a trans group etc etc - but there isn't

That's all I'm saying

And before you ask - yes i am interested in the subject as i work with survivors of rapes and sexual abuse on a daily basis.