To think being a SAHM/housewife is not the same as someone claiming benefits?

[Jajana]

Was chatting to my sister and was talking about how my MIL is a housewife (sorry not sure if that’s the correct term). She said that being a SAHM/housewife is no different to someone claiming benefits and would rather claim benefits than rely on someone for an income!

Bearing in mind, FIL runs a very successful business and all of the money MIL receives is from private funds - not through the state.

Am i being reasonable to think being a SAHM/housewife isn’t the same as claiming benefits?

Being on benefits is fine. Being a SAHM or housewife is fine. The only reason to want to draw the distinction would be to avoid being lumped in with "those people" - but why? Everyone does the best with what they can get.

Whenever I feel like nobody values my contribution as a SAHP (and I mean externally from my family here) I remind myself how much people rely on extended family to help with childcare. How jealous people get of people on here that have help. How many posts proclaim they 'have no help'. The fallouts with grandparents favouring one child's children over another when it comes to that help.
All these people do value the contribution of non paid for childcare. It saves the family money and gives flexibility not always found in other settings.
So what I do is valued. Just not me doing it.

Goodness, what fresh nonsense is this?! Now the kids without a SAHP apparently can't be bilingual? My dd obviously didn't get that memo, and nor did many of the other bilingual kids that I know. I'll let her know.

Funnily enough, as well as the two home languages that dd speaks fluently, she also has a good working knowledge of a third thanks to her nanny speaking it to her exclusively as a young child and through hearing me and DH continue to use it throughout her childhood. She doesn't speak that language fluently but her comprehension is excellent and she can make herself understood.

We know a lot of multilingual families and having a SAHP most certainly isn't a prerequisite for the kids growing up bilingual. It takes effort, yes, but there is no reason why WOHPs can't do this. I think a lot of SAHPs must assume that WOHPs barely see their children or something. They seem to have a very warped idea of what it's actually like.

I think a lot of SAHPs must assume that WOHPs barely see their children or something. They seem to have a very warped idea of what it's actually like.

Well, maybe, our experience of paid employment is the exact opposite of family friendly working. Certainly the particular roles I worked in previously weren't suited to me working when my D.C. was of school age or younger.

@hihellohihello there could be something in that. I was having a conversation earlier about how my old place of work has changed (for the better) on that front. The job I did before would have been horrendous to try and do with children I'd want to see.
That wasn't the only reason I didn't go back, but it certainly added weight to my decision.

Well, maybe, our experience of paid employment is the exact opposite of family friendly working.

It changes because it has to. I would stay in the office til at least 7/8, often much later pre children. I don't do that anymore . Experiences adjust.

But then our individual circumstances were such that we had no family or friends available to help out regularly. Plus I had to have a lot extra input in terms of advocating, the extra administration and support that was required for my D.C. in terms of ANs. Tbh I don't really know how the more usual experience is. I just had no time or energy for paid employment, though. But essentially I was a SAHP and then got cancer, had to undergo fairly gruelling treatment and effectively haven't work in paid employment for nearly 2 decades.

Yeah, maybe that's why some people choose to become SAHPs - if their only experience of working is very inflexible, perhaps it seems like the only viable option.

The reality is very different for a lot of people. I have been lucky in that I have had ultra flexible working arrangements throughout dd's life. It has helped that I am pretty senior and have skills that are in demand, which obviously helps in negotiating flexibility. DH also had very flexible roles when dd was younger and subsequently became self employed (though he does travel a lot, which brings its own challenges). We were both able to work around each other so that we only ever had the nanny for 4 hours a day before dd started school and we didn't use any paid childcare after that. My parents moved to be near us when dd was half way through primary school and they did help out from time to time, but we could have managed without them if needed.

Yes, our arrangements were particularly flexible and we were lucky to have that, but tbh, I know very few parents who can't manage a degree of flexibility if they want it. In my many years of managing people, I don't think I have ever had to refuse a flexible working request, but I have noticed that women are still much more likely to ask for this than men... even though the men would be equally capable of doing it.

I think I only have one friend who did the whole 8-6 in nursery 5 days a week malarkey. Most people are able to find a better balance than this if they want it, though obviously there will be jobs/sectors where that is harder to manage.

There could be something in that. I was having a conversation earlier about how my old place of work has changed (for the better) on that front. The job I did before would have been horrendous to try and do with children I'd want to see.

It changes because it has to. I would stay in the office til at least 7/8, often much later pre children. I don't do that anymore . Experiences adjust.

Yes, I agree, my husband's role is much more flexible and family friendly now than I ever could've imagined previously and far more so than it was when my D.C. was small.

I will add that the kids of my one friend who did use nursery from 8-6pm every day have turned out absolutely fine - healthy, happy, well adjusted and doing brilliantly in school. I don't think their parents have any regrets!

but I have noticed that women are still much more likely to ask for this than men... even though the men would be equally capable of doing it.

Hmm that might be true. It was certainly a culture shock for my DH when I got cancer and couldn't do what I had previously. I felt terrible guilt over this. Thankfully his employer was very accommodating.

I once overheard a male member of my team on the phone to his WOH wife. Their dc's school had called to say that dc was ill and needed to be picked up. I actually heard him telling her that she would have to go because he had important meetings that he couldn't possibly miss...which was bollocks. He did have meetings but there was nothing that couldn't be managed. He just didn't want to do it.

I made a point of telling him quite loudly while he was on the phone that of course he must go if his dc needed him. I don't think he thanked me for it.

And yet, somehow, when the shit hits the fan and these men have to step up, they suddenly find that it is possible after all. I'm sorry that you felt so guilty when you were trying to deal with a cancer diagnosis @hihellohihello. It sounds like you had more than enough on your plate already.

I will add that the kids of my one friend who did use nursery from 8-6pm every day have turned out absolutely fine - healthy, happy, well adjusted and doing brilliantly in school. I don't think their parents have any regrets!

I don't think that is that surprising. It can be pretty evident very quickly when things don't work out and people then tend to do all they can to switch things up regarding how they organise their lives.

Very true.

I'm sorry that you felt so guilty when you were trying to deal with a cancer diagnosis @hihellohihello. It sounds like you had more than enough on your plate already.

My DH was lovely throughout though, however, I think we all have internalised the patriarchy to some extent. Which means unwarranted guilt, and from that sometimes defensiveness.

Our perceptions may also be shaped by what we saw our parents doing when we were kids. I never doubted that work could be flexible because my dad worked very flexibly when I was a kid, back in the 70s/80s before flexible working was even a thing and despite my mum being a sahp. There were times when my mum wasn't around, and he would come home early/ take us into work etc as required. My mum didn't drive, so if we needed dropping somewhere, he would do it. Heck, he even came home to deal with a sick pet rabbit on a couple of occasions, so dsis and I just took it for granted that work could be fitted around family commitments. If you grew up with parents in more rigid jobs, I guess your perceptions would be shaped differently.

Yep, I'm sure that we have all internalised that shit to a greater or lesser extent. It probably plays out for people in different ways, but it's still there for most of us in one way or another.

Even having this discussion. You rarely see men debating the merits of WOH or SAH.

Yeah, my parents both worked but hours were pretty fixed and fitted in with their schedule. My mum once gave up a job when they unexpectedly changed the hours. They also had family help nearby. We also were left alone And took ourselves to and from school at a younger age than my D.C. was able to be left alone and take themselves to and from school.

Even having this discussion. You rarely see men debating the merits of WOH or SAH.

Indeed.

Whereas my mum was a SAHP who was miserable and unfulfilled by the role, and suffered with severe bouts of depression. So I grew up feeling guilty that we had stopped her from living the kind of life that she wanted. We are all shaped by what we see growing up, I guess.

@Mumwantingtogetitright I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here. My mum was a SAHM until my sister and I were both in primary school. She then went on to study nursing and has had a very successful nursing career. She worked nights so always did the school pick ups and drop offs and slept in the day when we were at school. I absolutely loved it and she never missed a thing. I always felt she had time for us and loved our chats on the way home and over the dinner table. Our dad would then tuck us into bed, read us stories and listen to us talk about our days.

DH had the opposite experience. He was always with friends mums after school or with a childminder. When he was older he let himself and his brother in and they entertained themselves til parents got home. He said his mum then spent the evenings cleaning and doing housework so they were very much left to their own devices and then sent upto bed. Always remembers being the child who never had anyone there at sports day, assemblies, award ceremonies etc knew his mum could never go on trips or come in and listen to him read. He was determined our children wouldn’t feel the way he did as a child and I was determined they would feel the way I did so it’s worked well as we both agreed very clearly on what we wanted before we had children.

Not determined enough to do the childcare himself though eh @Louise0701

Not determined enough to do the childcare himself though

these types never are

@Topgub my husband does do childcare

@TheKeatingFive what type?

@Louise0701

Are you both sahp then?