Would you hire a male babysitter?

[georgarina]

Why/why not?

Not a chance

No but I wouldn't hire a female one either.

Very close friends and family or no-one.

Nope, not a chance.

^as a mum of 3 fabulous sons absolutely enraged by this post

I would have trusted them with a male babysitter, and many families have trusted them in return

Utterly sick to death of the demonstration of boys^

This is so dumb. Instead of getting enraged at people not trusting men, get angry at the men who made people not trust them.

My dh is qualified in child care and development. He used to run play sessions for babies and toddlers in deprived areas.

If you're talking about people like him he'd be incredibly disheartened to hear such negative comments. So would I.

If you're talking about having a random teenage boy off the street coming in and looking after your kids. Then I get your point.

But why anyone would leave their children with a stranger, male or female, is beyond me.

I’m sure most parents would go to his play sessions, when they are present. But that doesn’t mean they would feel comfortable with him babysitting their children. It would be naive to assume he’s a safe person to babysit based on a qualification and some play sessions

Well now I know it ok to discriminate by sex again. I am happy to start discriminating against women for all the things they are statistically more likely to be involved in.

People do already 🤷‍♀️

So let's take this further since we are discussing facts so no need for censorship this isn't hate speech as you can see my opinion on this before. Muslims www.gov.uk/government/statistics/terrorism-arrests-analysis-of-charging-and-sentencing-outcomes-by-religion 67% of people charged with terrorism. But makes up 4.4% of the population. So just like men and sexual offences against children they are much more likely to be offenders. Should they be discriminated against in a similar way to this thread? What about in Rotherham where reports have shown there was a link between ethnicity of the girls and the men should men of certain ethnicities be discriminated against for employment with children because of this?

For the avoidance of doubt I think not but we cannot allow one discrimination against a protected characteristic but allow another.

I don't see how terrorists and babysitters are linked?

We’re talking about babysitting. Babysitting requires a person to be in my home with 1:1 access to my children. I am one person making a judgement for the safety of my children. I will refuse anyone on any basis I want.

Employment by a company is different. I don’t think schools or nurseries should discriminate against men working there. There will be things in place to ensure that they do not have 1:1 access with children. My child’s pre school had a male member of staff, which I was fine with for that reason. My children both had a male teacher at primary school at one point. If a parent isn’t comfortable with that male member of staff though, they can withdraw their child, they have that right.

Discrimination rules do not apply when youre privately hiring someone to babysit for your child in your own home. Its perfectly ok to not want a man or a muslim man to babysit your children. Its not the same as if they were a nursery worker or a school teacher etc or a sports coach etc.

We all discriminate for all sorts of reasons in our personal lives.

Playing devils advocate slightly (and I'm very aware that I'm verging into notallmen territory here) is it fair to judge all men by the actions of a few?

It's difficult. I can totally understand why some posers are saying "I would never allow a man to watch my kids" but does that contribute in part to the problem, reinforcing this attitude that men cannot be trusted as much as females in certain situation when most men very much can be?

I don't want to come down on one side or the other, but I do think it's a far more subtle conversation to have than "men bad".

Exactly. Dating is another part of our lives when we can reject someone for any reason, although some people like to tell others they are wrong for that too. I’m always a bit suspicious of people that try to make individuals accept every person in every situation. I really don’t have to, and I won’t be forced to, just because someone yells discrimination at me.

@CapMarvel

Playing devils advocate slightly (and I'm very aware that I'm verging into notallmen territory here) is it fair to judge all men by the actions of a few?

We have single sex spaces (for now at least) primarily for safety reasons. That doesn't mean all men are rapists, it means that because some are we should safeguard based on mitigating the risk posed by the 'not all men' rather than based on the nice ones.

Fair isn't part of safeguarding. It's about risk assessment and statistical likelihoods.

@CapMarvel

I don't want to come down on one side or the other, but I do think it's a far more subtle conversation to have than "men bad".

Nobody is saying 'men bad' though.

They're saying there are more men who sexually abuse children than women who sexually abuse children and that we can't know which ones are the 'bad' men so to limit risk, they'd prefer a babysitter to be female or to not use one at all.

That is entirely different from saying they're making that choice 'because men are bad'.

People who "look" South Asian are more likely to be South Asian than those who don't. South Asians are more likely to be Muslim than white people. Muslims are far more likely to be terrorists.

So when someone who looks South Asian sits next to me on the bus AIBU to move as far away from them as possible and get off at the next stop? Never mind their feelings, it's about me reducing risk being safe, and it's not illegal.

See how that thread flies on Mumsnet.

I don’t judge all men on the actions of a few. If I did, I wouldn’t have a male partner and wouldn’t live in a house with my son. I am more cautious of men though, and yes, that is based on the actions of a ‘few’. There’s quite a lot more than a few though so let’s not minimise the problem.

I care less about fairness than I do about my own and my children’s safety. Is it fair that women and children have to live in a world where men are a real threat to them?

Should all women have to stop taking sensible precautions based on crime statistics to protect men’s feelings? Why is the pressure on women to change? Are all men thinking they must do better? Are they fuck. If they were, we wouldn’t be where we are. But women should stop taking sensible precautions to save their feelings. NO.

And the good men don’t take offence. They get on, they act like decent human beings, they understand why women are cautious and they show they’re a good man by their actions. They don’t sit their feeling sorry for themselves, or thinking women should change or feeling disheartened. They call other men out on their shit and they back women up.

Employment law is a different scenario completely. You would hope that in most jobs there would be checks and measures and supervision. For jobs working with vulnerable people, there are DBS etc checks. There. are reasonable safeguards in place.
For someone coming into your home, there is no real supervision or checks and measures and honestly it's much easier to do things when you are working alone that you might hesitate to do if you were working around others- from crimes to just skiving.

And the good men don’t take offence. They get on, they act like decent human beings, they understand why women are cautious and they show they’re a good man by their actions. They don’t sit their feeling sorry for themselves, or thinking women should change or feeling disheartened. They call other men out on their shit and they back women up.

Absolutely this.

There is a different between illegal discrimination (eg denying service or employment or housing) and prejudice. One does lead to the other, of course. And I'm sure plenty of people have been denied jobs etc because, between two otherwise equal candidates, they picked the white person over the non-white person.

If someone wants to delay their journey, pay for another bus etc, rather than sit next to another demographic, crack on.

Yes totally I would, I judge people on them not their sex and in my experience although men are more likely to be a paeodphile and a sexual abuser than a woman it’s still a tiny percentage and woman are also guilty of this.

I also see many more women who like to get a bit handy with their fists and give kids a slap. I see them on here justifying it. Arguing you should be allowed to smack your kid around. For me you’re more likely to hire a female abuser who likes to hit little children than you are a male paedo who wants to sexually abuse them, and as much as one is worse than the other, both are Abhorrent and unacceptable. Think of all the recent cases of women torturing, starving and beating children to death as well

acting like somehow women are a safer bet is bullshit in my view.

We are talking about denying employment or task on the basis of protected characteristic. They are very similar.

@Kingharoldshairstyle

I also see many more women who like to get a bit handy with their fists and give kids a slap. I see them on here justifying it. Arguing you should be allowed to smack your kid around.

That's the absolute opposite of any threads I've seen on here. Never seen anyone on here 'arguing you should be allowed to smack your kid around'. Ever.

Sorry you don't speak for all good men, and I suppose you only class them as good men if they agree with you.

Most men I have come across mainly good, tend to say they are sick of labels from women who pick and choose respect for them when it suits there agenda so switch off and I cannot blame them reading this thread.

Let's face facts if you take the UK's estimated population of men and take the number of men accused each year of sexual crimes it's comes to 1.7% EST. So that's alot of you are dismissing through your constant accusations. 🙄