To remind you that Rainbows, Brownies and Guides are mixed sex?

[KatieAlcock]

I have settled my case with Girlguiding and I may now take my daughter to Brownies, but it's been a long hard slog.
If you have a daughter in Guiding, you do have the right to ask for single sex accommodation for her. In fact, I'd say if you don't, it's a bit worrying.
If you are a leader, you can also say you will only share a room with a female.
Parents and leaders should get decent clear communications about what they are letting themselves in for and their rights, but we shall see if that transpires.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10765045/I-outcast-shunned-like-criminal-just-wanting-Girl-Guides-safe.html

JOJN I promise you there are a lot of leaders out there who feel very passionately about this issue. My personal stance is that I can do more good for the young girls in my local area by continuing to run my units until the issue arrives physically in my unit. At which point i will leave and I will tell parents why. Please don't think majority of leaders think like the idiots at HQ think. As leaders we spend a lot of time wondering WTF HQ are playing at.

Katie THANK YOU for taking the stance you did with GG. Absolutely the right thing to do, at great personal cost to yourself. Thank you so much. GG has been totally captured by gender ideology. Everyone else who understands biology thinks this is ridiculous.

@KatieAlcock thank you for your courage and your tenacity. I know this has come at great personal cost to you.

The Scouts are transparent though. It's well known they accept boys and girls, but do (I assume) provide single sex facilities as necessary.

Girl Guides say they are a single sex organisation for girls only, but also accept boys who identify as girls, and until now used the same facilities even if inappropriate eg showers, dorms in camps.

There's a lot of misinformation about scouts already on this thread. Scouts may be mixed sex but their trans policy clearly states that use of toilets and facilities etc is according to gender not sex.

www.scouts.org.uk/volunteers/inclusion-and-diversity/including-everyone/lgbtplus/transgender-and-gender-identity/supporting-trans-young-people/

Trans young people should be able to use the toilets or facilities of the gender they identify as.

Guides claimed that any male who said they were female was female and did not permit single sex accomodation for guides or leaders (unless the trans person asked for it).

Why could a trans person ask for something and it's granted but others are not allowed to request it? That's not equal treatment

Thank you for standing up for girls, young women and also female leaders.

I will not let my young daughter join rainbows even though she would love it due to these policies as to me this is safeguarding 101. I wish more parents knew that this organisation only acknowledge gender and not sex.

I think you have missed the point, which I’m surprised about as you are a guide leader.

The issue was more about transgender girls being allowed to share sleeping accommodation and showers etc with biological girls even though they still have full male genatalia and that the girls and their parents are not to be told. It was not to be open for discussion.

Even without the possibility of sexual abuse I am not sure I would be happy for my young daughter to be getting changed and sharing showers with physical boys. I am no prude but I would not be happy to be changing and showering near a man, whatever gender they wish to be, so would not want that put onto my daughter without her consent or any discussion beforehand.

I’m really glad that this has come up in the press as I had no idea this was going on within brownies/guides.

Well done Katie 👏

RainbowRename

Sorry, I should have included the word some. I know many GG leaders are very concerned about mixed sex facilities.

Thank you to Katie for everything you've done to raise awareness.

I was pleased that this made the top story on the app today. I was shocked when I read it. My DGD is very shy and immature and the thought of her sharing a tent with an intact male (which she might not realise) is horrifying.

I know this has had a hugely detrimental cost to you emotionally, but thank you so much for not giving in.

I'm totally against single sex schools, clubs and organisations but totally in favour of single sex safe spaces: sleeping accommodation, changing rooms, toilets etc.

On the ground many actual leaders and volunteers think this policy is insane. Luckily it's not come up as an issue for us personally. My daughter won't be going on any overnight trips that include other groups but within our own group she's fine as we don't have any trans kids currently so the mixed sex issue hasn't come up yet. GG have got this so badly wrong it won't age well.

Completely agree with ALL of this. I find your attitude really worrying MissCrowley.

Thank-you so much, Katie, for forcing Girlguiding to finally take safeguarding seriously and be honest with parents.

i meant to quote Moppin’s post, which I completely agree with.

@KatieAlcock Congratulations on your legal win against The Guides. The safety of girls is paramount and so many parents are still unaware of the failure of protection for them in Girlguiding. Monica Sulley is one prime example.

thecritic.co.uk/misguided-or-misgendered/

I can understand the issues people are worried about (safe sleeping space etc.. ) but I thought it was widely known they accept trans kids? So is your issue that girlguiding is no longer single sex or the safe sleeping / changing facilities.

Literally just read an article about your fight. I’m all for genuine trans people being supported. But I do not think that women’s dignity and safety should be compromised.

you were treated terribly by girl guiding. Even if you were wrong: there still needs to be debate and dissent: we can’t just cancel people because they don’t voice the same views as the party line.

well done

I think there are many complex issues here

Firstly is the issue of single sex spaces and how they should be used

Reading the article; there is a very important secondary issue- policies on single sex spaces were changed; and when Dr Alcock queried this and discussed it with others she was treated in a negative, detrimental and unfair way

Thirdly; I find some of the comments up post about needing a summary of the article as they would not read the Mail rather concerning. We live in complex times and will not always agree with each other. I think it is actively healthy to read views that you might not agree- I read the Times and the Guardian (though prefer the Observer) and also, occasionally, the Telegraph, and yes, even the Mail. Sometimes I have read something that has actively challenged by thinking- I view this to be a good thing

So why aren’t they accepting girls and women who might believe they are trans too if they are so inclusive? Personally I would not want my daughter to be influenced by girls and women who believe they are the opposite sex for whatever reason, but the option of her sharing (without our knowledge) sleeping accommodation, changing rooms etc with males infinitely worse.

And me. But I don't think it will ever be an issue in my unit as I control the waiting list and we only admit girls.

But how would you know, if they registered on GO with a female name? That's my slight concern, as a fellow leader with the exact same stance as you.

It used to be rainbows, brownies and guides for girls.
Beavers, cubs and scouts for boys.
Venture scouts was mixed.

no issues.

Well done Katie - I know it's taken a lot of effort and perseverance to get to this point. You should be very proud.